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Cynake
 [ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| MAIL 3.0 / MAIL wiki / Found a volunteer. |
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| Posted on Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:13 am |
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Ta da?
http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=9416
He's ready to go.
I threw in some thoughts there. Plans/objections?
Where do we stand on the whole new server, did anyone actually go pay for it yet?
I was thinking, if we're agreed, to get him set up, and to go ahead duplicating any content we'd like to see duped. This would go for weaves, but, specific images would each need permission. We should figure out what license MAIL wants to have content under, I'm good with the public domain one I think.
Keep it private for a bit until things are brought up to speed, and then start making announcements about specific articles and such. Get a list of what's released and okay to become the seeds of articles, (which, once the wiki goes public, will become collaborative from then forward).
Naming conventions should be established first, that's one of the things the current articles database lacks (and good descriptive titles).
Eventually, I see the two portions will merge.. but seeing as how things tend to move slowly, I think a good interim solution would be that aticles/weaves/etc start as seeds here, and then become collaborative on the wiki site. That way we require no integration between the two.
I haven't really done anything on the BOD yet besides figure out improvements, so, as we have someone to handle the technical side, I don't mind throwing my hat in the ring to do most of the administrative end of kicking it off.
Anyway, I'll shut up now and let everyone else pipe in. |
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Cynake
[ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| Posted on Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:59 am |
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*BUMP*.. Been a week.
Anyone?
This is quite the opportunity. We have an experienced and capable volunteer ready and willing to go.
Do we have new webpace purchased yet? Have we decided on where to go on that yet (since it was 6 months ago that we last browsed)?
I suppose our volunteer should be made BOD. Should we vote on that? Do we need a vote on the wiki being MAIL official?
I want to tackle this as aggressively as I can right now while I have some time to do all the administrative things.
I know the NMF was this weekend so a few of you were busy with that, not complaining, just, trying to give this the boots again.
What's obstacles are holding this back? Decisions? Votes? Debates? |
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Kithplana
 [ Major Voice ]
Joined: May 21, 2004
Posts: 298
Submissions: 44
Location: California
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| Re: MAIL 3.0 / MAIL wiki / Found a volunteer. |
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| Posted on Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:26 pm |
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| Cynake wrote: | | Where do we stand on the whole new server, did anyone actually go pay for it yet? |
I believe we're undecided as to which plan to get and how long. The silver plan for a year would be as much as we're paying now, and as far as I remember we'd be able to afford the gold plan if we really needed it.
| Quote: | | I was thinking, if we're agreed, to get him set up, and to go ahead duplicating any content we'd like to see duped. This would go for weaves, but, specific images would each need permission. We should figure out what license MAIL wants to have content under, I'm good with the public domain one I think. |
The MAIL submission terms say "I hereby grant Maille Artisans International League rights of publication of my work on the M.A.I.L. site." This is still the MAIL site, so I don't think we'll have problems in that area. |
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Cynake
[ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| Re: MAIL 3.0 / MAIL wiki / Found a volunteer. |
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| Posted on Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:56 pm |
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| Kithplana wrote: | | I believe we're undecided as to which plan to get and how long. The silver plan for a year would be as much as we're paying now, and as far as I remember we'd be able to afford the gold plan if we really needed it. |
There's also the one I recently suggested. Check the other thread if you're curious. I noticed the price for the silver plan skyrockets if you're not committing to 3 years.
Like we said in the other thread, I don't think there's much of a "we" when it comes to making the decision, just whoever knows how to make it best, go for it.
So, can you decide and just buy it? Or, maybe Blaise needs to actually buy it if you're not okay with getting refunded by Paypal or however MAIL would pay its bills. I'd say just look at it like you were spending your own money, investigate the companies a bit, and pick.
| Quote: | | The MAIL submission terms say "I hereby grant Maille Artisans International League rights of publication of my work on the M.A.I.L. site." This is still the MAIL site, so I don't think we'll have problems in that area. |
*nod*. The problem is, we have permission to publish their work, I'm not sure we have permission to edit their work, which is what happens in a wiki. Plus, in a wiki, we can't really attribute the article to the person who wrote it, as it's going to get edited by everyone.
Legalese aside, whether we're "allowed" to do this or not, I'm thinking about how we'd be treating people.
I think I wouldn't have a problem with anyone using anything I had written, on a wiki, but I would probably be pretty ticked off if no one asked first. Especially if there's an article up, with my name on it, that's had all sorts of things done to it. I'd rather they actually removed my name. Other people might prefer that you leave the name.
The solution is, for anyone *not* okay with someone editing their article, for their source article to become research or a source for the wiki. I.E. Everything of value in it will be extracted and rewritten by the community, and then that original article can more or less be discarded in favor of the community-edited one. This will take some work, but, it's a wiki, it's great for those kinds of things.
It's a bit of a headache, as, how many articles and such have been written by people who're no longer in the community.. but, I guess we start with a big publicity push to gather permission, and then deal with that first. By the time those are done, a few more will have trickled in.. and then let the community rewrite
*stops rambling*
Anyway, any more roadblocks?
Do we need a vote to see if we should do this? Or, does the vote from years ago in the "redesign MAIL" and such count just fine? |
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Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4372
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico
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| Posted on Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:30 pm |
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i don't think we should use currently submitted content for a wiki, unless the member submits the content for the wiki project. (or permission is granted.)
kim
PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything. |
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Cynake
[ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| Posted on Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:14 am |
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*nod*. I agree. Articles, maybe even the Gallery. We might have permission, but.. you can't just take something someone's written and then have everyone edit it, without asking.
Weaves though, I'm pretty firm on thinking we're okay to move. All that was submitted was the weave (the arrangement of rings), a picture of it, and a short description, if any.
I cannot imagine the nightmare of trying to get permission for every weave from every person. There'd be huge gaps, some would never be filled, etc. Same thing we were planning on doing here, just adding to it. Preserve the name of the weave, the "creator", and maybe some of the text. But let people add details about it.
Also of note, we have another volunteer with coding experience, in the Requests forum, wanting to know what kinds of skills we need. I don't really know. PHP is all I recall. |
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Kithplana
[ Major Voice ]
Joined: May 21, 2004
Posts: 298
Submissions: 44
Location: California
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| Posted on Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:51 am |
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D'oh. Somewhere in my mind I was thinking that the transferred content was going to stay static.
I'll have to take a look at what you suggested, Cynake, though part of why I like Downtownhost is its reputation for good service and sane management. |
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Cynake
[ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| Posted on Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:32 am |
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| Kithplana wrote: | | D'oh. Somewhere in my mind I was thinking that the transferred content was going to stay static. |
Well, this, actually, is an option. It's not preferable, I think a wiki-structure and community-editing are superior in almost every way, as long as the egos of those involve aren't rampant, (and I'd rather a site who's content is created by non-egotistical people, scaring away those that aren't is fine by me). The only reason I can see for single-minded authoring is on grand pieces of work where cohesion and vision are vital. The only thing I can think of where this plays, is Tess as the weaves admin. He needs to be the only authority, (help is great, but everything needs to pass through him before it goes up).
Anyway, it's an option. Administrators can design things so that some pages are not editable, and fixed. To me, the first thing I'd do when I saw that, was create a new article that was collaborative and could grow or be refined.. but, the ability to host the content as static is certainly there.
| Quote: | | I'll have to take a look at what you suggested, Cynake, though part of why I like Downtownhost is its reputation for good service and sane management. |
*nod*. Service and quality trump the numbers. The thing I liked about the one I peeked at, was that content was guaranteed to be hosted on multiple servers. They're pretty big, they say they have 100,000+ sites hosted. Though, if anything, their outrageously generous storage/bandwidth/price scare me a bit, as, they would attract those that would actually use it, and pummel the servers that our content is also running on.
Thanks for putting some time into this. It's appreciated. |
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Kithplana
[ Major Voice ]
Joined: May 21, 2004
Posts: 298
Submissions: 44
Location: California
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| Posted on Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:45 am |
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| Checked out Servage -- reviewers say they've slow PHP and MySQL performance. As the forum is PHP and the entire site is brought to its knees if MySQL dies *shakes fist at current host*, I'll still cast my vote with Downtownhost. |
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Cynake
[ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| Posted on Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:55 pm |
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Okie, sounds good to me. (This is why I said the person who knows best should make the decision, I probably wouldn't've picked that up :p).
Can you make the buy and get us started, or, do you not feel comfortable with doing that?
Also, and if not, and this is just the kind of thing that goes slowly, what if our volunteer started building the wiki elsewhere, and it started getting fleshed out there... and then suddenly moved it to the MAIL server when it was ready? Is that a process that makes sense, or does that sound like a bad idea?
Also, to anyone, should we be making him a BOD member, or do we need debate on this, or, what's the deal? |
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Kithplana
[ Major Voice ]
Joined: May 21, 2004
Posts: 298
Submissions: 44
Location: California
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| Posted on Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:27 am |
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I'd buy the hosting, but I've just started college -- you know how that goes. However, I do think it would be fine to start building the wiki offsite, since in theory you just transfer the files and database over when it's time.
As for BoDship, it's a good idea -- input on related stuff and all that. |
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Cynake
[ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| Posted on Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:59 am |
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I sure do know how that goes. Lemme know if you need to be sponsored a box of no-name mac&cheese sometime :p. No worries.
We'll just wait until the next time Blaise un-tornadoes (maybe coming up soon, I recall him mentioning August as his next slow period) and let him handle that.
Or.. hrm. Maybe Jon, since Jon's our treasurer? The guys who handle finances have always done such a seamless job I don't even know who to ask.
Also, have our new admins received their shackles yet?
[edited to add: Just re-reading what I said.. I'm pretty sure you got this, but if not obvious, I meant you buy it and then MAIL pays you back via paypal, like I said in the other thread.. not trying to guilt you into outright donating a couple hundred. :p Either way, yeah, money doesn't grow on trees, I'm not sure I feel comfortable with it anyway, on second thought, without Blaise also giving it the once-over and the okay] |
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Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4372
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico
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| Posted on Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:49 pm |
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i don't think i'm comfortable putting someone on the bod who has only been about since july 27 of this year, and has only made 36 posts.
if we are starting this thing offsite, there's no reason they can't help out with it there. it would give us a chance to get to know them a little better.
kim
PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything. |
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Cynake
[ Ancient Forge ]
Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.
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| Posted on Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:43 pm |
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*nod*
I was thinking, maybe Ad-Hoc or whatnot. In fact, I think his first post *was* on Jun 27, about the wiki. He created an account for that I suspect.
I thought about this a bit last week, and, as a side issue, how much could he build it off-site? Are we any more comfortable hosting MAIL content on another server? This would be articles, weaves, etc.
If not, there's.. not much you're going to see as evidence and the whole "Getting to know him" bit. .. which is why I was thinking it best to at least be somewhat officially MAIL.
It's not really a committee, but.. perhaps ad-hoc is the way to go.
Okay though, meanwhile, until Blaise pops back in, I'll let him know to start framing the site off-site. |
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Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 1491
Submissions: 0
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| Posted on Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:47 pm |
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I was thinking the same thing as Kim. On the other hand, it might be helpful to give this person the ability to post in this forum so they can join in on the discussion and give first hand updates on progress; would it be possible to give them the ability to post in this forum only without giving them the keys to monkey around with submissions and other forums?
I'm not trying to say that this person has any nefarious intentions should they become a BOD member, I just think it's wise to get to know someone a bit before giving them access to admin tools.
My 2 rings anyway. |
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