coloring pennies
View previous topic | View next topic >
Post new topic Reply to topic
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Articles Discussion
   
Author Message

Joined: March 26, 2007
Posts: 6
Submissions: 0
Location: Tennessee

coloring pennies
Reply with quote
Posted on Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:46 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

you told us how to turn pennies a silver color even hoe to give them a brass coating, I was wondering if it was possible to do the reverse to galvanized wire, give it a copper coating the turn it into brass.

Joined: February 15, 2002
Posts: 436
Submissions: 83

Reply with quote
Posted on Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:03 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Well... a first question to ask might be, how could one copper plate some galvanized wire?

Given the difficulties with this idea you might want to consider just getting extra hard brass for your project.

Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 965
Submissions: 88
Location: Allendale, MI

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:00 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Galvy? No, I don't think so...at least not in the way you're saying. The trick of plating pennies with brass is in the fact that brass is a copper/zinc alloy. That's why you plate the copper penny with zinc and then heat it -- causes the two elements to alloy, and voila, brass. With galvanized steel (or anything other than copper) you'd have to plate on both copper and zinc to get the same effect.

Oh hang on. I get it now. Galvy has zinc coating, that's what you're referring to, right? Heh, duh me. In *that* case, it would be interesting to experiment with. I wonder if there is enough of a zinc coating on the steel wire to get them to alloy?...If the order that they are plated on matters?...If the fact that it is wire, and not a disk, could have some impact on the practicality of the reaction?...How one would go about setting up the chemical reaction for a copper plating (as Aderamelech said)?...There, lots of food for thought!



Joined: March 26, 2007
Posts: 6
Submissions: 0
Location: Tennessee

coloring pennies
Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:20 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Yeah after reading that the copper on the penny mixed with zinc would work I wondered if the zinc on galvy work work the other way.

Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 965
Submissions: 88
Location: Allendale, MI

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:38 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Googled "copper plating," and this article instantly reminded me of what happened to my pliers that one time I dipped them into a copper sulfate solution. I'm a tad rusty on my chemistry (been a whole year lol), so I'm not sure whether copper would be more active or less than zinc (which would determine whether the Fe/Cu reaction would also work with Zn/Cu). Of course, modern pennies are all copper plated onto a zinc core, so there must be some way to do it.

Now I really want to grab some pennies and go play with fire.



Joined: February 15, 2002
Posts: 879
Submissions: 45
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Reply with quote
Posted on Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:19 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Ahh, interesting question.

I think it would be possible to put a copper layer on galvanized wire, but there is one thing to be careful about. If you look at the article ArmoredDrake posted, you'll note that in the process of plating copper on the *steel* nail, metallic iron gets converted into iron ions (which go into solution, and 'vanish' from the nail).

So yes, you'd have to look at a reactivity chart to see if a swap would work with zince and copper. BUT even if the reactivity was in your favor, you'd be removing zinc metal to add the copper. Not such a good thing if you're trying to keep the two layers and make brass.

The other way it might work is electroplating. You'd put the galvanized wire in a solution of copper sulfate and run a charge through the setup (you'd need to find the proper anode and cathode configuration). That should give you a coating of copper. Then you could heat the stuff up.

As a final note, I'd keep in mind that all these layers are quite thin. Although you could probably turn galvanized wire into brass-coated steel, it's probably just not going to last very long. Some of the pennies I made into brass didn't keep their brassiness very well. That would be another experiment for the books, I suppose... but again, all these layer things are usually pretty thin, so they usually don't last very long under wear and tear.


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.--Bertrand Russell

Maille Code V2.0 T6.4 R5.4 E=o.o Fj6.2 MAl.a W$m C$b G0.5-2.6 I1.6-9.5 N20.26 Pn Dacjs Xa25g13w5 S00 CCu

Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 1430
Submissions: 19
Location: Dayton

Reply with quote
Posted on Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:05 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

for a chemistry project back when i was in HS, i choose to plate plate silver with copper and the same principles are the same for just about any two metals. please don't try this without more research and definitly not without someone else there in case something goes wrong.

in a Strong acid like pure HCl(hydrochloric acid) you must connect a penny(or any pure copper mass) to the positive side of a DC power source by attaching it via a coated wire of a high ga (DO NOT USE AN ELECTRICAL OUTLET-use a battery, i recommend a good 6V to start with) on the negative post connect whatever object it is that you would like to plate. submerge both objects in the acid,Be very carefull they don't touch and that the wires don't touch even if they are insulated as they can get red hot and burn the insulation off, if they touch they can spark and possibly start a fire. as they sit in the acid a thin layer of copper will flow with the electrical current and deposite on the other object. the object being plated must be turned periodically because the copper will only sit on the side facing the penny. this process is a bare-bones description of electroplating.

you might have to remove the zinc coation first if you try this because it might have a negative effect on the whole process. as for where to get HCl nowadays...can't tell you.it used to be in "Draino" but they stopped because it is caustic and it ate away copper pipes as well as the clogged hair balls "he he" anyways good luck for more clearity i will try to add a pic


Chaos Est Vita
Scurvy free since '85
It's always night, sometimes it's just brighter than others

<a href="http://mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.cgi?key=55086">Maille Code V2.0 T5.9 R5.1 Eo.f Feur MAg/Ti Wci$ Cbw$ G0.3-14 I1-75 N29.26 Pa/j Dacdjstw Xg16p5t2w1 S07 Hi</a>

Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 1430
Submissions: 19
Location: Dayton

Reply with quote
Posted on Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:35 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

ok sorry it's a bit funny looking but it works...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/chaosseraphimpyre/electroplating.jpg?t=1176683550


Chaos Est Vita
Scurvy free since '85
It's always night, sometimes it's just brighter than others

<a href="http://mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.cgi?key=55086">Maille Code V2.0 T5.9 R5.1 Eo.f Feur MAg/Ti Wci$ Cbw$ G0.3-14 I1-75 N29.26 Pa/j Dacdjstw Xg16p5t2w1 S07 Hi</a>

Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 104
Submissions: 35
Location: Alberta, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri May 04, 2007 10:47 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Despite being copper colored, pennies are not copper but usually 99% zinc with copper plating so if you are messing around with copper plating it's best to use something other than a penny for your copper source.


*??)
?.???.?*??) ?.?*?)
(?.?? (?.?? All chained up and pulling my wire

Joined: June 07, 2007
Posts: 40
Submissions: 9
Location: New Jersey

Reply with quote
Posted on Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:07 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

The problem there is that if the maille hits the acid without any current flowing through it, the zinc will be gone in seconds. Plating also becomes difficult in that you can't plate a finished piece, it would have to be wire or rings or else copper will plate everywhere except where the rings touch. Also, a good coating requires that the electodes be placed evenly all around the piece or else the coating can get very uneven. The zinc on galvy is a very thin layer, though quite a lot thicker than the zinc coating on the penny prepared as in the lab demonstration. Copper will displace zinc very easily (zinc is quite reactive while copper is a noble metal), although the chances of getting a thin coat on top of galvy just by a dip into a copper salt solution are low. The coating is also crummy if done this way (spongy copper, brown-black loose stuff). Seems like way too much work. I have, however found a recipe for dichromate finish (shiny gold color) over zinc plating (what's already on galvy) and will order some potassium Dichromate shortly. I also need some sulfuric acid, which may be more of a problem than the dichromate. It seems almost too straightfoward. Dip the zinc coated objects into a bath of x grams of dichromate and y mililiters of concentrated sulfuric acid in a liter of water for i think it was 10-15 seconds. Then, cure to harden the coating (basically let it sit or put in a low oven to dry and solidify the layer that was deposited).

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 337
Submissions: 4
Location: Australia

Reply with quote
Posted on Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:41 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

I've already posted in a couple of topics about this, but the general gist of it is:

it is possible to transform the zinc coating on galvy to a copper coating with copper sulphate and a liquid (water works, but ammonia is best). making an alloy of the coating I guess could be possible by stopping coating half way through then heating.

the steps of making galvy copper coated is follows:

~dissolve CuSO4 in ammonia. This will result in a light blue opaque liquid.
~Dip your galvy wire into the solution. remove and wipe with a paper towel.
~Repeat above step several times till appropriate colour is obtained.
! This coating wont chip or flake off
! It's a lot of effort to go through to get copper coloured wire



Joined: June 07, 2007
Posts: 40
Submissions: 9
Location: New Jersey

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:37 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Excess ammonia complexes copper cations as tetraamminecopper (II) ions. A light blue opaque liquid means you've only prevented a decent portion of the copper ions from doing anything by making it into solid copper hydroxide. It may be advantagous to simply start off with a more dilute copper sulfate solution in water. If the basic environment is what is helping the coating go smoothly, you can add more ammonia until the solution goes dark blue and clear when the copper is fully complexed.

Post new topic Reply to topic
Jump to:  
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT. The time now is Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:40 am
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Articles Discussion
Display posts from previous: