Armour to protect against Sword & Gun simultaneously?
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Posted on Mon May 18, 2009 8:38 pm
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Scales are typically overlapped, so the rivets would not be exposed. Unless the bullet penetrated the first layer and hit the rivet directly on the underlying scale, what you describe would not happen.

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Posted on Tue May 19, 2009 4:04 am
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yes, but those scales are also made to break, that is how they dissipate the force. so unless you're just getting shot once, that risk is there.

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Posted on Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:00 am
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Maybe something like this would work: http://www.securitycoatings.com/default.asp. It can withstand shrapnel from a blast so I'd assume that it could take a sword. It's also somewhat bulletproof as long as it has some sort of backing. Maybe encapsulate maille in this stuff.


Learn to value yourself, which means: to fight for your happiness.[Ayn Rand]
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.[Ayn Rand]

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Posted on Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:02 am
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I'm not going to discourage Slashs idea because I believe in the right to self defense, not only by wearing armor but also in the carrying of weapons. Slash, for one thing make sure all tests are done on a dummy (prefferably something that is of similar consitency to the human body.) As for the specs on how to make it, I can only speculate but I'm aware military body armor sometimes uses types of ceramic. Rubber is also good as the force of impact goes through it in a sort of ripple effect similar to water, so maybe a comination of rubber and ceramic? Though this is more of a chemists field than anything I'm capable of. Using a dense maille weave out of a light but strong metal (let's say titanium) and welding it should do well for slashes and stabs, but have it UNDER a well made and well tested bulletproof armor plating. That's all I have for now, good luck and keep it safe.

Also, I notice I'm late in the thread but I wanted to respond to some of the first posts rather than jumping past them to reply to the newer ones.

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Posted on Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:20 am
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Also look into fiberglass fibers, apparently if you overlap several layers it can offer protection comparable to kevlar.

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Posted on Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:27 am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEE1Ih8s4H0 According to this test about an inch of pure duct tape can stop a .22 handgun.

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Posted on Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:11 am
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this thread makes me laugh every time i see it.

also, not sure if slash will be responding.. he hasn't been here in awhile.

kim


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3.o is fixing everything.

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Posted on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:22 pm
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Wow. Necro'ed from 2006. Let's put it to rest for good shall we.

Stab/ballistic combination armour already exists and has for a long time now. There is even a NIJ standard for it that's been around since November of 2000.

http://www.justnet.org/pages/StabCPL.aspx

This link shows an exhaustive listing of all models of armour that meet the standard. Some of them even use maille inserts under kevlar. How do I know that? Read the patents.

Here is a copy of the standard itself, so you can properly test the stab resistance of your own maille.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/183652.pdf

Do a little research guys, it's not difficult.


http://www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

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Posted on Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:43 am
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this should do the job.

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Posted on Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:17 am
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It's been a while, but I finally managed to figure it out. Never thought it'd be this simple. *-.-

Titanium. Any weave, but tight fitting. Doesn't even need to be welded. Butted works fine. Had much success with 16ga 3/16ths Euro 6-1. As long as it's a tight weave, and fits tightly. If you want to make a vest for this, it needs to barely fit you.

As for testing... Had some cop buddies test this out with 10mm handguns. With maille just "draped" over a soft target, it causes the maille to be dented inwards, stretched, ripped, and target gets a lead implant. With maille nice and taut, only a few rings were bent (but not removed from the weave), but no penetration whatsoever. Took four shots in a 10cmx10cm area to break through, with tension on.

No doubt it could prevent slashing and piercing. Keep in mind, though... no matter what you're up against, this provides absolutely no protection against concussive forces. There will be bruising, and there will probably be broken bones. Then again, both maille, and kevlar have that issue as well, so.... this mystery is as good as solved.

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Posted on Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:27 am
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Yeah, that makes sense. Nicely done.
I bet there are alloys that are better for this than titanium, but they'll probably only do a bit better. Guess that question is answered.


Learn to value yourself, which means: to fight for your happiness.[Ayn Rand]
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.[Ayn Rand]

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Posted on Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:56 am
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Slash wrote:
As for testing... Had some cop buddies test this out with 10mm handguns. With maille just "draped" over a soft target, it causes the maille to be dented inwards, stretched, ripped, and target gets a lead implant. With maille nice and taut, only a few rings were bent (but not removed from the weave), but no penetration whatsoever. Took four shots in a 10cmx10cm area to break through, with tension on.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but it sounds like your piece barely passed with the 10mm. I imagine that it would not fair so nicely against anything stronger than that. What do you think?

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Posted on Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:47 pm
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honestly, i'd be impressed with maille holding up to a .22..

slash, did you get images or video of this?


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3.o is fixing everything.

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Posted on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:39 pm
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Unfortunately, I no longer have the pictures. =( Hard drive they were on got fried. I can, however tell you the logical conclusion I came to, about why it works. The tightness of the weave, and keeping it taut, ensures that any rings that are dented, damaged, etc, are held fast in place. It can't come apart when the rings can't go anywhere. In order for anything to get through, rings need to be removed, or separated far enough to be bypassed. One of these days, I'm going to do an experiment with stainless, and Euro evens, to see how a sample of E10-1 of comparable strength to a given sample of E4-1, performs. The more rings holding onto any one ring, to keep it from coming out, or apart, the more like a solid piece of metal it is. And, if it's taut, and the weave is borderline locked up, it pretty much IS a solid piece of metal. (With some give, which only helps to absorb inertia anyways) I hope this helps explanation helps.

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Posted on Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:35 pm
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If one needs to keep the maille taut to stop any kind of ballistic attack, then it would stand to reason that one would not be able to wear the armor like a normal maille shirt, yes? Your results were very interesting though, I look forward to hearing the results of your future experiments (and Chao would like pictures Razz ).

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