Armour to protect against Sword & Gun simultaneously?
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Posted on Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:29 am
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Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:12 am
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I still dream of damascus scales, connected with welded/punched titanium rings. But for now, I guess dragonskin is the best thing out there.

What about.... A layer of dragonskin, with a layer of damascus/Ti scale over it, and another layer of dragonskin on top?....

Of course, the damascus scales will also be mirror polished, so as to reflect lightsabers...


Sir Slash
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Posted on Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:17 pm
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Slash wrote:
I still dream of damascus scales, connected with welded/punched titanium rings. But for now, I guess dragonskin is the best thing out there.

What about.... A layer of dragonskin, with a layer of damascus/Ti scale over it, and another layer of dragonskin on top?....

Of course, the damascus scales will also be mirror polished, so as to reflect lightsabers...


Ah, another 'metal' head. I'm dreaming about guitars with damascus inlays...


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- Gaius Iulius Caesar, De Bello Gallico I 3

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Posted on Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:53 pm
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Sorry to say it, Slash, but I think it going to remain the ultimate chainmaille pipe dream. Sad

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Posted on Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:40 pm
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Slash wrote:
Any realistic ideas?


Easy.......Standard Kevlar under mail.


For the hauberks of the Dwarves were so fashioned that they rusted not but shone ever as if they were new-burnished. The Silmarillion






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Posted on Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:33 pm
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Well, the problem with bullet proof chainmaille is because the metal is too weak, so it makes it worse because the broken rings make shrapenel wounds.

So the simple way to do it is have a nice hefty layer of kevlar on the inside closest to the chest, then a layer of strong chainmaille, then another layer of hefty kevlar,

the point of the two layers of kelvar is so if the soldjer is shot the shrapnel from the chainmaille doesnt harm extremities or other teammates

EDIT: oh and BTW the army rejected dragonscale, because it failed their tests.


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Posted on Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:38 pm
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HE HE, another idea. Take the titanium wire, wrap it in alot of kevlar. Then make rings out of the kevlar wraped titanium wire.


"Who is to say that I am who I say I am if no one knows who I am not to become but me."
-Azrenn the Draconian

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Posted on Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:02 pm
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Azrenn wrote:
HE HE, another idea. Take the titanium wire, wrap it in alot of kevlar. Then make rings out of the kevlar wraped titanium wire.


The rings still would break on impact.


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- Gaius Iulius Caesar, De Bello Gallico I 3

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Posted on Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:03 pm
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true, the first idea was better/


"Who is to say that I am who I say I am if no one knows who I am not to become but me."
-Azrenn the Draconian

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Posted on Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:44 pm
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i suggest a tank.

powerful and portable. what more can you ask??

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Posted on Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:05 pm
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SR_matt wrote:
Dartanian i had missed what you had said before abotu damascus steel, the only problem with the logic of forging damascus rings togeather is that the reason it has its strength is becasue the metals are folded over its self at least 10 times, also damascus is no stronger than the 2 steels that have been put togeather and it wouldnt be hard to bend rings made from it (the test for a master blade smith involves making a knife from at least a 300 layer damascus and the last test of the knife involves bending it into a 90* angle with out it breaking so it is definatly posiable to bend a ring)

Not to be shoveling up old stuff, but I saw my name mentioned Very Happy
I was talking about the original damascus steel: wootz damascus. You are referring to what is commonly known as damascus steel due to the damascene pattern, yet is only sheets of low and high carbon steel forgewelded together and folded over. Wootz damascus is cast and then forged directly into the sword, no folding. It owes its sharpness and strength to the alloy content and heating/cooling process. After the forging process, the blade was dipped in acid to supposedly show the damascene pattern. The process actually endowed the blade with its ungodly sharpness by eating away some of the steel and exposed the mesh of cementite nanowires and nanotubes, giving it an ultrahard edge like a microscopic saw on a stronger, more flexible substrate of ferrite(or maybe bainite, I forget). Wootz was not 'bend to a 90* angle' flexible though, just enough to let the sword yield a bit.

As to the topic of the thread, no new developments yet.


Dart


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Posted on Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:50 am
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Having worked in the LE/Sec industries, I can tell you with no uncertianty, that a level 3A vest does only one thing, and that's prevent the projectile itself from entering the body. You will bruise, most likely suffer at least cracked bones if not completely split, and internal bleeding is common.

The trauma plates that are inserted in some vests, are a layered bonded ceramic, and help disperse the remaining energy transfer that a kevlar vest doesn't. Something like a gambeson. Under stress, many people have taken hits absorbed by these plates and not even known they were fired on.

In essence, Kevlar and Chaimaille alone are very similar. They're both a comprimise protection against the common personal arms of their time. Pistols and Swords, respectively. Neither of these are battlefield weapons, only sidearms. In comparison to the Rifle and Spear they're lacking terribly. Just as the forms of armour designed to repel them.

In response to the other things mentioned in this thread. You're allowed your concern for what some people might do, and I fully support you in discouraging any real-world testing. But let's have a little consideration for a curious question, rather than suspecting somone's going to go nuts in a school or something. We all know full well that noone attacking a school would need armour, noone there is allowed to be armed.

Nope, you can't wrap titanium in kevlar. Well, you could, but there's no point in it. Kevlar works as armour because it's woven into a tight mesh of fibers, when struck, it stretches considerably before it breaks. Deny it that ability to stretch by wrapping it around your rings and you've basically made an expensive set of beige coloured chainmaille.

I'll note though, that if I did have to enter combat for some reason, I'd still be slinging a sword belt alongside my rifle. I'd never once give consideration to the extra weight for having the utility and close quarters capability of a good sabre or gladius.

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Posted on Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:41 pm
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What you want is Pinnacle's dragon skin body armor, a type of modern ceramic coin maille http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/dragon-skin.php. It's probably the best stuff on the market for law enforcement but unfortunately the "coins" are glued to a backing during manufacture and the glue softens and lets go at about 140 degrees F and also becomes brittle and breaks below -20 F, which results in failure from the coins falling off. MILSPEC requires that body armor must survive an temperature range of 160 through -40 as they have to ship from desert to arctic.
The Pinnacale site has lot's of neat videos of their armor taking incredible abuse, if they could only find a good adhesive the military would eat it up.

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Posted on Sat May 09, 2009 2:43 pm
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Run a search on a substance called D3O. It is a newer technology which effectively harnesses the power of Shear Thickening Fluid, a material which hardens on impact, yet remains fluid and pliable under low pressures.

Preliminary testing shows a 10mm layer protecting well enough to be used in high-impact sport equipment. Even the Military is using it now, to supplement helmets for impact resistance.

Not only this, but STF is also capable of greatly enhancing the protective power of Kevlar. They took a 14 layer protective vest down to 4 layers, STF treated, and experienced the same level of protection.

Bullet immune? Not a chance. But with tight, welded, titanium maille backed with STF treated Kevlar and a D3O padding, bullet resistant may be possible. I could see it taking most low-caliber or handgun rounds, although your maille would be instantly scragged in ANY hit location.

There also exists the potential for shrapnel created by the impact of a bullet.

In short, you're far better off just wearing a proper protective vest underneath if you feel like you're going to be attacked by firearms.


EDIT: Dragonskin, as mentioned above, is another classic example of "Right Idea, Wrong Application". The scales are staggered in the wrong direction, creating a horizontal wrap that can be easily defeated by an angled attack. There's also the adhesive problem. What was wrong with the idea of riveting the scales to an equally protective backing?

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Posted on Mon May 18, 2009 8:11 am
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Easy, riveting would give imbalanced impact points causing more damaging failures. What happens if the bullet hits the rivet instead of the scale? You have a nail going through you as well! But they do have the right idea, a ceramic/STF hybrid is probably what we are heading for now, most likely with some form of carbon nano-tubes used as well.

And don't you love those little guys!?! Natures ultimate chainmaille!!!

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