M.A.I.L. :: View topic

Gallery Assistant · Posted on Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:46 pm

Hi folks,

Many maillers - including me - are using welding wire for making their rings. But there are thousands of alloys around, and many of them are unusable because of their properties, and some are better than others - and some are nearly optimal for our purposes.

I did already search MAIL for a link to an existing database, that lists many or even a couple of useable alloys, but I wasn't able to find one. So I propose to collect experiences of MAIL users to be able to identify and rate an alloy, if someone looks (e.g.) at 'iiih-baeh' or another auction house and finds a seemingly interesting product for maille use.

Should we do so? - I am prepared to begin with my assortment of tested welding wire types, if there is interest... And if: Which information should be provided to build a good, useable and useful database?

-ZiLi-

Maille Code V2.0 T6.5 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.4-3.5 I1.6-16.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Martin · Posted on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:55 am

Short of the flux core steels, what exactly makes other alloys (or metals) bad for maille use?

I've been buying wire off of ebay for years and have had no issues at all. Just have to keep an eye out and avoid fluxed welding wires.

In the past I've found great deal on there. Lowest prices yet have been $5/lb Titanium, $1/lb copper and bronze, $1/lb aluminum. Got 11lbs of Ti just last week for only $60.

Just need to keep an eye out for the deals.

Make saw cut rings: http://www.Ringinator.com/

Gallery Assistant · Posted on Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:40 am

I will explain:
Steel - There are alloys, that are very corrosion resistant, others aren't; some welding wires (like SG-2) are copper plated, but that plating wears off quick, and the stuff rusts as hell. Aluminium - there are alloys, that are shinier and/or harder than others, some more and some less suited for anodizing. Bronze and other Copper alloys - There are maaany different types - with very different properties; color-wise, corrosion resistance and so on. And there is much more around (like Nickel, Titanium, etc. and their alloys)...

You and me seem to be relatively experienced, which alloys are good, and which aren't fulfilling our particular needs, or which alloys have this or that property (some of are wished by one mailler but not by another one). But not all maillers seem to have that knowledge - and are 'fishing in a muddy pond' when browsing through eBay or suppliers' catalogues.

So I thought, an experience database for use of the lesser experienced - or simply interested - maillers would be fine. And so I repeat my RFP.

-ZiLi-

Maille Code V2.0 T6.5 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.4-3.5 I1.6-16.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Dreemr · Posted on Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:42 pm

Zil, I don't think it can hurt. Although it sounds like an awful lot of work for a small ROI. Maybe better to do an article about the various welding rods/wire that are not usefull. There are significantly less of those then the useful ones. Laughing

Hail to the king, baby.

Chubbs · Joined: July 16, 2008 Posts: 447 Submissions: 2

I would be one of those fishing in a muddy pond Laughing

I don't even know where to start when looking for wire. I'd defenitly make use of this kind of information

<a href="http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.cgi?key=55086"> Maille Code</a> V2.0 T4.7 R4.1 Ep~f Fds MNb.a&Ag.a Wh Capw G1.6/0.6 I6.4/2.0 N28.26 Pj Djs S08
<a href="http://chubbs-99.deviantart.com">Deviant Art</a>

Gallery Assistant

ok, here an example - I have made an excel file today that will be maintained - and regularly exported as html. And that is far from complete, but only the wire types, I can report out of own experience.

http://zili.de/maille/welding-wire.htm

If you post your experiences I can add these informations to the table - to build the core for that type of wire database - if you want to get the excel file, replace 'htm' by 'xls' in the url linked above.

-ZiLi-

Maille Code V2.0 T6.5 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.4-3.5 I1.6-16.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Martin · Posted on Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:50 pm

Well, putting it that way, ER-70 is the copper coated steel. That I always avoid. And for aluminum, I only go after the 5356 alloy.

Make saw cut rings: http://www.Ringinator.com/

Gallery Assistant · Posted on Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:55 pm

oh yes - I see, I omitted some denotations especially of the Aluminium alloys used. I will maintain...

Edit: Done

-ZiLi-

Maille Code V2.0 T6.5 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.4-3.5 I1.6-16.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Links Caretaker · Posted on Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:42 pm

Really good idea ZiLi, I can see it being referenced and used quite a bit...Once folks find how inexpensive and available these types of materials are.....cool.

I'm moving this to the Articles discussion, and people can add suggestions, personal experience and whatever other useful data shows up....should eventually be made into an article, or if and when we?MAIL goes wiki-ish, it'll be useful there too. More-so.

Kodiak-

Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong". -H.L. Menken
"The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." -Dorothy Parker
Chaincraft Mandrels

Gallery Assistant · Posted on Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:27 pm

OK, I incorporated my own experiences for now, but none of other maillers. But I have some question to you all (and make my decision to maintain further based on the 'resonance'):

Should this table remain as it is (and only updated, if I get a new type of wire myself), or should it be used as basis element of a 'mailler's welding wire database'? Note, that I currently appended a non-welding wire section at the bottom, without including its data into the table. So the followup question is: Should this table remain a special Mailler's WELDING wire database, or become a common mailler's wire database?
Which data colums should maybe included as well (e.g. photo links, wire manufacturer database links, or something I did not think of being useful)?

And IF it should be extended to a common database - how can experiences of other maillers be included, incl. maintenance, notation of authorship, version history, etc...?

I AM prepared to do maintenance work, but if the 'group' likes to extend that to a common database, I would like to see it reside on MAIL's webspace.

-ZiLi-

Maille Code V2.0 T6.5 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.4-3.5 I1.6-16.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

MaxumX · Posted on Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:50 am

aluminum - 5356 bright aluminum
aluminum - 5052 another bright aluminum keeps a shine
Aluminum - 6061 T6 anodizable aluminum and Good machining alumiun as well) 1/2 hard i would say.
Aluminum - 7075 Hard Anodizable aluminum ( i use for rc cars) 150 hardnees (bernel scale)
StainlessSteel - 436 Hard Stainless (most my stuff made from this)
StainlessSteel - 304 multi purpose not realy stainless
StainlessSteel - 316 spring temperd good stuff.
StianlessSteel - 409 same as above realy. but slightly harder i balive.
SpringSteel - 1095 my fav
ToolSteel - 440C vary hard stuff!!
iorn - A48 a full hard iron.
brass - 464 holds a good shine decrative strighth
brass - 260 good for lots of things..lol about 80 hardness
Bronze - 932 this is a barring bronze
Bronze - 510 used mainly for springs
bronze - 220 this is you jewlery one.
copper - 101 and 110 are electrical grade and jewlery grade
titanium - grade1.

this is my short list, for a full list and description of all alloys that are commenly used ask and i shal E-mail you the spread sheet.

maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

gawthfrawg · Joined: April 22, 2008 Posts: 1538 Submissions: 12

What about 4043 Al mig welding wire. I checked our local welding supply house and I can get 5lbs for $25 of this alloy. I didn't ask about the 5356 but they do carry that also. The 1lb coils of the 4043 are $7.69/ $5.59/lb for 5lbs and after that I got confused on their pricing.

The 5356 1lb roll was $5.69. I was told to get the 4043 for wire because that's what TRL uses? Maybe I got bad info or got confused.

As for other alloys I'm not sure I've never used welding wires up until this last batch of my aluminum rings. I like that I can hand cut them and they look saw cut with my good cutters.

I do think the idea of a comprehensive or a least well informed list would be very useful especially for those of us who have access to places to purchase welding wire, we could go in and say here 'what of these do you carry and what are the prices?'

Very Happy

ElementalDragon · Posted on Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:53 pm

gawthfrawg · Joined: April 22, 2008 Posts: 1538 Submissions: 12

Gallery Assistant · Posted on Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:20 pm

@gawthfrawg: The 4043 (AlSi5) is already referenced in my table of collected experiences alloys: The one roll I got is imho too soft to make sturdy maille, and behaves not much different to pure aluminium, and is only a bit shinier and harder. I may have got a very soft batch, but manufacturers data sheets tell me the same low hardness data.

For maille I recomment strongly to chose an AlMg alloy, best AlMg5 (5356) or AlMg4.5Mn (5183). Both are very similar, and their difference for mailleing purpose is only marginal. But 5183 is the tougher and harder one of these two. So I prefer this one.

I will not more buy that 4043 wire for mailleing - if I get some from the dump, I will take it, but definitely not more buy...

-ZiLi-

Maille Code V2.0 T6.5 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.4-3.5 I1.6-16.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me