submission guidelines in other languages
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Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:19 pm
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:
ZiLi wrote:
DL: These are guidelines for people who want to submit items to our library - if your teacher taught you bad manners, you should maybe blame him for. If I want to reference a diameter, I call it a diameter. Gauges are devices for simplified determining, whether a to be measured item fits into a measurement limit or range. Not more not less.

-ZiLi-


Agreed.
However, unless doing sculpture, or JPL, maille generally is a "close enough" artform... The key word being ART...

I don't think that imposing ridiculously stifiling limitations and forcing absolute precision helps anyones cause.


I do NOT want to impose any limitations on creative processes, but just like to see things being done right - using proper terms doesn't hurt anyone. So if a submitter hasn't more data than 'ga', (s)he is allowed to use them, as nearby data are always better than none at all. But the emphasis should be to have reproducible, unmistakeable ones being published, whenever possible. Not more not less.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2833
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:23 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
Daemon_Lotos wrote:
ZiLi wrote:
DL: These are guidelines for people who want to submit items to our library - if your teacher taught you bad manners, you should maybe blame him for. If I want to reference a diameter, I call it a diameter. Gauges are devices for simplified determining, whether a to be measured item fits into a measurement limit or range. Not more not less.

-ZiLi-


Agreed.
However, unless doing sculpture, or JPL, maille generally is a "close enough" artform... The key word being ART...

I don't think that imposing ridiculously stifiling limitations and forcing absolute precision helps anyones cause.


I do NOT want to impose any limitations on creative processes, but just like to see things being done right - using proper terms doesn't hurt anyone. So if a submitter hasn't more data than 'ga', (s)he is allowed to use them, as nearby data are always better than none at all. But the emphasis should be to have reproducible, unmistakeable ones being published, whenever possible. Not more not less.

-ZiLi-


By the same token "ga" is also an unacceptable term...

I'm all for getting it "right" but for 95% of maillers out there, "16g SWG" is plenty of information.

In fact, if you attempt to enforce decimal inches on the majority of submitters, all they will end up doing is Googling "16g SWG in Inches" and pull a nominal conversion... And your data is the same as it was before, only with the illusion of being (incorrectly) more accurate.


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Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3612
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:32 pm
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Oh noes. Just call it 'wire diameter', and not 'wire gauge' in the guidelines. What are desireable measurement units, is just a technicality, that might be addressed in an explanatory comment. See that there are people around, that might think they need to publish a gauge number, even if they have precise data. Use of the word 'diameter' avoids that.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2833
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:38 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
Oh noes. Just call it 'wire diameter', and not 'wire gauge' in the guidelines. What are desireable measurement units, is just a technicality, that might be addressed in an explanatory comment. See that there are people around, that might think they need to publish a gauge number, even if they have precise data. Use of the word 'diameter' avoids that.

-ZiLi-


But "gauge" is not a diameter... This is what we've just been discussing... Coif LoL

Perhaps "Wire Size"?


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Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3612
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:47 pm
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okok - what about 'wire size (diameter)'? But to be honest: I think that in case a submitter uses noncircular wire for a piece, this is mentioned anyway, so simply 'wire diameter' should suffice, and be better than 'wire gauge', anyway...

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2833
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:58 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
so simply 'wire diameter' should suffice, and be better than 'wire gauge', anyway...


Daemon_Lotos wrote:
But "gauge" is not a diameter...



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Joined: December 22, 2007
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Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:18 pm
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I changed it to this:


Please include details
At the VERY LEAST, tell us:
- what the item is
- the weaves you used
- the materials you used
Also appreciated:
- ID (inner diameter) of rings
- diameter of wire used (An actual measurement is preferred, but if you use "gauge", please specify what gauge system, ie. awg or swg.)
- any special things you can think of - beads, coins, clasps etc.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: April 02, 2008
Posts: 2068
Submissions: 36
Location: Lincoln, NE

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:24 pm
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lorraine wrote:
I changed it to this:


Please include details
At the VERY LEAST, tell us:
- what the item is
- the weaves you used
- the materials you used
Also appreciated:
- ID (inner diameter) of rings
- diameter of wire used (An actual measurement is preferred, but if you use "gauge", please specify what gauge system, ie. awg or swg.)
- any special things you can think of - beads, coins, clasps etc.


I like this Lorraine. One question though. Don't we want the ID and WD information in order to OK submission? I will admit I have still been tagging a great deal (sorry didn't get it done by the new year) so I haven't OK'd many gallery submissions. It was my understanding we wanted: Weave, material, ID and WD present to OK a submission.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1543
Submissions: 266
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 pm
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MusicMan wrote:

I like this Lorraine. One question though. Don't we want the ID and WD information in order to OK submission? I will admit I have still been tagging a great deal (sorry didn't get it done by the new year) so I haven't OK'd many gallery submissions. It was my understanding we wanted: Weave, material, ID and WD present to OK a submission.


I thought we put the kaibosh on requiring specific ring information on gallery submits and it's now optional; only a requirement for weave submits.

I suppose most maillers could go their whole career without needing precise wire diameters (decimal inches or mm), and I'm fine with people using gauges, as long as they specify which gauge system. I just don't think we should use the word 'gauge' as the main descriptor for wire size.. anywhere. Just list it as an option.

By using the word gauge, you encourage maillers to use the wire gauge systems. Remember that we are dedicated to the advancement of the maille artform. Gauge is basic.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
152 + 13

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1543
Submissions: 266
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:01 pm
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:

Says YOU Razz
I still refer to wire as Gauge, I just specify which system, and check nominal..


I know you do. in My M.A.I.L., under wire diameter/gauge system, you can't specify that you use decimal inch exclusively and no gauge systems. You can however, specify that you use metric and do not use gauges. That is definitely biased.

These are the options:

American Wire Gauge (AWG)
American Wire Gauge in Decimal Inches
American Wire Gauge in metric (AWG in mm)
Standard Wire Gauge (SWG)
Standard Wire Gauge in Decimal Inches
Standard Wire Gauge in metric (SWG in mm)
Mixed Gauge (SWG/AWG)
Mixed Gauge in Decimal Inches
Mixed Gauge Metric (SWG/AWG) in mm
Metric Wire (mm)


None of these apply to me, and I'm a very experienced chainmailler!!

This is assuming it was you who added that feature. If it was someone else then just ignore me. Feel free to ignore me anyways, as this old timer's always ranting on about damn kids and their gauge systems.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
152 + 13

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3612
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:25 pm
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Well I think (congruent with Dave), that for Gallery ring data are more an optional (but much welcome) part of a submission. But once data are given by the submitter, they should be unmistakeable, or at least to the best knowledge of the person who submits an item. We should simply awaken the submitters' interest to give good reference data, as it's THEIR showcase, and not ours. That should maybe hinted at, somewhere in the guidelines.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 4178
Submissions: 106
Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:04 am
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MusicMan wrote:
lorraine wrote:
I changed it to this:


Please include details
At the VERY LEAST, tell us:
- what the item is
- the weaves you used
- the materials you used
Also appreciated:
- ID (inner diameter) of rings
- diameter of wire used (An actual measurement is preferred, but if you use "gauge", please specify what gauge system, ie. awg or swg.)
- any special things you can think of - beads, coins, clasps etc.


I like this Lorraine. One question though. Don't we want the ID and WD information in order to OK submission? I will admit I have still been tagging a great deal (sorry didn't get it done by the new year) so I haven't OK'd many gallery submissions. It was my understanding we wanted: Weave, material, ID and WD present to OK a submission.

Yeah, that topic was discussed here:
http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=15083


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: April 02, 2008
Posts: 2068
Submissions: 36
Location: Lincoln, NE

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Posted on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:28 pm
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Thanks Lorraine I had forgotten about that discussion.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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