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Joined: May 27, 2008
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Posted on Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:37 am
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hey folks! I've got a 10 pound spool of 18 guage stainless from TRL. I pretty much gave up on saw cutting it and bought some 8 inch bolties. can anyone tell me what size mandrel would get me closest to TRL's machine cut 3/16 rings? thank you in advance Smile

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:04 am
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As TRL defines the ring sizes mandrel based, and NOT as final 'after-weave' one, simply use this 3/16" as mandrel size. Just have a closer look at their catalogue listings, and note that they list for their SS18316 rings additionaly to the nominal data an ACTUAL ID of 0.203" (5.16mm), and an AR of 4.2, what IS already the RESULTING diameter when coiled on a 3/16" (4.76mm) mandrel.

Sure, there will be a slight deviation when DIY; most maillers have to learn to coil with the relatively high and constant tension needed for hard stuff, and to train also cutting consistently, to get rings in a consistency comparable to machinecut, but the diameters will at least fit roughly to the data listed there, the AR maybe 0.1 higher, or also 0.1 lower if sawcut is used instead. But the order of magnitude will be safely reached, if the home-ringmaker isn't just too unskillful. But who already learnt to maille, should have proven also enough skill to manage coiling and cutting...

And don't worry about rings where TRL does not list final data - be assured that they list ALWAYS mandrel-based 'nominal' data, even if not explicitly mentioned.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 27, 2008
Posts: 35
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Posted on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:07 pm
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zili, theres a post over on TRL's forums, and according to them they use a variety of mandrels to give consistant size regaedless of materiels "•Mandrels: sets are best as you will likely want to make a range of sizes. The mandrel size is not the inside diameter of the ring because each material springs back as it is coiled. We use custom mandrel sizes to ensure our rings are all the same size regardless of material. Mandrels wear out after time. The material the mandrel is made of matters.

". I've been coiling and cutting my own rings (silver, niobium,EC etc) for about 3 years now. the rings I coiled on a 3/16 mandrel(purchased from TRL) have an ID about the same as TRL's 3/16 machine cut rings OD I recently moved, and I dont know where the heck my calipers are or I could tell you the exact sizes, but there is a significant difference in size.

Joined: August 30, 2008
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Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

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Posted on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:01 pm
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Damnation Angel wrote:
zili, theres a post over on TRL's forums, and according to them they use a variety of mandrels to give consistant size regaedless of materiels "•Mandrels: sets are best as you will likely want to make a range of sizes. The mandrel size is not the inside diameter of the ring because each material springs back as it is coiled. We use custom mandrel sizes to ensure our rings are all the same size regardless of material. Mandrels wear out after time. The material the mandrel is made of matters.

". I've been coiling and cutting my own rings (silver, niobium,EC etc) for about 3 years now. the rings I coiled on a 3/16 mandrel(purchased from TRL) have an ID about the same as TRL's 3/16 machine cut rings OD I recently moved, and I dont know where the heck my calipers are or I could tell you the exact sizes, but there is a significant difference in size.


Oh yes, their machine cut and sawcut differ... In that their machine cut is made without a mandrel...

You will, unfortunately, need to play trial and error, but I suspect that a 1/8" or 5/32" would be a good starting point.


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Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3604
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:09 pm
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This might be a misinterpretation - I guess they have made once a reference sample for their standard bulk material sizes, and now, if they get e.g. a slightly harder or softer (=higher or lower springback) batch of the nominally same material, adjust the mandrel sizes slightly, to have always more or less identical final ring data.

But in principle, as already shown with the given sample of the 18316 rings, these rings (even the machinecut ones) will always be, as if they were hand-coiled on a 3/16" mandrel (here around 0.203"), and NOT have an inner diameter of 3/16" (that were 0.187") - that difference between 0.187 and 0.203 IS the springback/cut combination. And so, depending on material, you'll always get diameter differences, and depending on cutting method, these sizes also vary.

And even your coling method matters, as coiling tension influences reached diameters - your note that your selfmade rings coiled on a 3/16" mandrel show MUCH more springback than factory-made ones shows that there might be something wrong with your systematics, as I have SUCH high springback ratioes ONLY for insanely hard wire types, and most times reach similar data as TRL does. My tip is to have a setup where the distance between last wire feed contact spot and mandrel touch spot is as short as possible, and the coiling tension is as high as possible - to reach low springback. My personal setups have reduced this distance to below a mandrel diameter, except for very thin mandrels...

If in doubt, ask jon@trl...

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

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