Voting Process
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Voting Process
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Posted on Sat May 01, 2010 11:16 pm
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I was confused by the issue poll process and I was wondering if a discussion could be started on the process.

Here is how the process (as I understand it) works.

1. Member starts an discussion, possibly adding a vote to the thread, to see if there is interest in the community. (1-2 weeks)

2. An Issue Poll is started to see if an Official poll should be conducted. (3-4 weeks to get needed votes)

3. An Official Poll is conducted to see if the BoD should discuss the issue. (3 weeks possibly)

4. BoD discusses and a decision is made. (?? time)


This seems like an awful long process (about 3 months give or take) with the possibility of three votes and most likely the issue will die before it gets past stage 3 for the long process. I understand what Blaise is saying, but I really don't see every little issue going to an Issue Poll, in my 1.5 years here this is the first time I have ever seen them.


Before I started my Issue poll I was given great advice by a Board member who directed me to the bylaws. (Thank you very much for the help Lorenzo.) I read them and misunderstood. I understood it to be the process below:

1. Interest Poll
2. Issue Poll (an official poll)
3. BoD discussion and decision.


This seemed like a reasonable process and very expedient. I know that this was an incorrect interpretation, and people were very patient with me in explaining so I think I now understand the process.

As it stands it is almost impossible (these are my feelings at this point) for a member to enact an "official" poll before the interest in the topic dies even if there was heated debate on the original topic. After a while you just start ignoring the thread and move on.

I am not complaining, I just wanted to bring up this observation in hopes that it might get people thinking about how easy or difficult it is for a member to actually change something on MAIL. Maybe even start a discussion.


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Posted on Sun May 02, 2010 12:10 am
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some stuff takes a long time... other stuff, even if controversial, happen quickly. the trading room took 2 weeks to discuss and put in action..

but, yes, generally things happen slowly here. this is the nature of things when there are so many people involved in the development.


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Re: Voting Process
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Posted on Sun May 02, 2010 2:02 am
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MusicMan wrote:
but I really don't see every little issue going to an Issue Poll

I think this is by design. It isn't useful to have every little thing go to an issue poll. The issue polls are more for the major items/issues (from my understanding, anyway).

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Sun May 02, 2010 3:16 am
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I'm a relative newbie when it comes to MAIL. I started hanging around, reading the posts about three years ago. I rarely if ever read an admin discussion post before about 6 months before I became an admin. I can honestly say I didn't give a rat's behind what the admins were doing. I just wanted MAIL to be here when I clicked on it.

Something I have noticed from all my lurking is that people tend to come and go very rapidly. The few who last more than a few months start to post answers to questions, ask intelligent questions themselves, and just generally become helpful members of MAIL. Some of those eventually become admins and some just keep contributing the way they always have. My point (and I do have one...) is that the admins are usually the people who stuck around and showed some interest in helping to run the place. And, the majority of the membership who aren't admins, at any given point in time, is made up of the "don't give a rat's behind how you do it, just do it" people that come and go. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all. I'm just saying that's how it works. (I'm also not saying you are in that category MM. I think you already know that I see you as one of the helpful members that cares enough to stick around and contribute.)

So when someone in the general membership wants to make a major change in how things work, and that person doesn't have a large backing of the admins, then it should take a concerted and organized effort by the membership to bring about that change. That's the only way to ensure that the change is important and necessary to more than a handful of people who very likely won't be here next month.

Okay, I'm done now.


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Re: Voting Process
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Posted on Sun May 02, 2010 4:20 am
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MusicMan wrote:
Here is how the process (as I understand it) works.

1. Member starts an discussion, possibly adding a vote to the thread, to see if there is interest in the community. (1-2 weeks)

2. An Issue Poll is started to see if an Official poll should be conducted. (3-4 weeks to get needed votes)

3. An Official Poll is conducted to see if the BoD should discuss the issue. (3 weeks possibly)

4. BoD discusses and a decision is made. (?? time)
....

I read them and misunderstood. I understood it to be the process below:

1. Interest Poll
2. Issue Poll (an official poll)
3. BoD discussion and decision.


Unfortunately, neither of your understandings are right. It's really much more simple and straightforward than you think.

First of all, an issue poll is only strictly necessary if the BOD has considered your request and either denied or ignored it. It's a way for members to override the BOD in the case they can't get satisfaction directly.

Assuming members find themselves in said situation, the process is as follows:
1) Post an issue poll on the topic.
2) If it passes, the BOD must work out the specific actions and or changes that the issue entails and hold an official membership vote on whether to implement those actions and/or changes.
3) BOD acts (or not) on the proposal per the vote.

Not too hard, not too slow. Just two votes with some discussion in between...


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Re: Voting Process
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Posted on Mon May 03, 2010 6:14 pm
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Blaise wrote:
Unfortunately, neither of your understandings are right. It's really much more simple and straightforward than you think.

First of all, an issue poll is only strictly necessary if the BOD has considered your request and either denied or ignored it. It's a way for members to override the BOD in the case they can't get satisfaction directly.

Assuming members find themselves in said situation, the process is as follows:
1) Post an issue poll on the topic.
2) If it passes, the BOD must work out the specific actions and or changes that the issue entails and hold an official membership vote on whether to implement those actions and/or changes.
3) BOD acts (or not) on the proposal per the vote.

Not too hard, not too slow. Just two votes with some discussion in between...


Thank you for the clarification. So I am going to use my situation as an example to help me better understand.

What should have I done to get the board to consider my request? I started a thread/poll in the KC to see if there was community interest, but what I am understanding is that I should have presented it to the board some how before initiating the Issue Poll. And than how would I know if it was denied or not?

As you can tell I OBVIOUSLY did not read things correctly. Not that I am going to do this often, or even ever again, I just want to understand the proper way of doing things to keep down the drama that I instigated with this one.

Blaise - Thank you for putting together this forum for these types of discussions/issues. I think it was a good idea for those of us who want to learn how MAIL runs.


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Re: Voting Process
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Posted on Mon May 03, 2010 7:16 pm
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MusicMan wrote:
What should have I done to get the board to consider my request?

From what I understand, you would have taken your proposal directly to the BOD. If they didn't answer to your satisfaction (i.e. decline/ignore), then you would take it to the community with an issue poll. Or if you want to discuss it beforehand to get more people on your side, that's great too.

My question would then be, which of the board members would you go to with such a request? HerrBGone is the boards mod, but I don't seem him around often. Sakredchao is the Mouth, and people seem to correspond through him often enough. But I really don't even know what the "Mouth" title means. Then again, Blaise is the Website Admin, that might work for this purpose. Possibly.

MusicMan wrote:
I just want to understand the proper way of doing things to keep down the drama that I instigated with this one.

What drama?

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Re: Voting Process
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Posted on Mon May 03, 2010 7:24 pm
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Vorondil wrote:

My question would then be, which of the board members would you go to with such a request? HerrBGone is the boards mod, but I don't seem him around often. Sakredchao is the Mouth, and people seem to correspond through him often enough. But I really don't even know what the "Mouth" title means. Then again, Blaise is the Website Admin, that might work for this purpose. Possibly.


That is a good question. How does a member address the BoD as a whole.

vorondil wrote:
MusicMan wrote:
I just want to understand the proper way of doing things to keep down the drama that I instigated with this one.

What drama?


Check out the Depricated History Issue Poll. Things got a little heated at times before the poll was done again 'Correctly'.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
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Try new things.
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Re: Voting Process
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Posted on Mon May 03, 2010 11:01 pm
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Vorondil wrote:

My question would then be, which of the board members would you go to with such a request? HerrBGone is the boards mod, but I don't seem him around often. Sakredchao is the Mouth, and people seem to correspond through him often enough. But I really don't even know what the "Mouth" title means.


"mouth" means i talk a lot. this does not mean i speak for MAIL, the BOD or any thing really, just that i talk..

now, the proper place to address these things is this forum. a couple weeks ago, i guess it would have been the requests forum.. we don't really have a lot of experience with these things. but, now, it's this forum and addressing the BOD and membership all at once.


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