Nordic Rune Inlay for mead horn
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Posted on Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:18 pm
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Rygar: Nice inlay! We don't see nearly enough runic stuff here...

Serpentine: You won't find too much online about Ogham script. No one's ever come up with a completely reliable translation scheme, so all we have are lots of pictures of artifacts and a bunch of hypothetical translations...

RunVitki wrote:
Tolkien did use Futhark Runes - but in a Scandinavian subset that's kinda more "impressive looking". Somewhat different letters, different meanings, etc.

Well, as far as code, no - but the Rune Magicians (vitkis) DID write the Runes backwards when they wanted to write in code or magic. The idea was that so few people could read, let alone be really literate, that writing them backwards was close enough to write in code so that noone else could figure it out!


Actually, Tolkien started off with the Anglo-saxon runeset, not any of the scandinavian ones. He invented the languages first, and then changed/added characters and phonetics in his artificial runeset to represent them.

(Just wanted to throw my hat in here real quick, I've been studying the runes from a linguistic perspective for about 5 years.)

Also, while the runes were definitely used for divinatory and magical purposes, the swappable directions of the runes themselves came from the fact that runes were written in 'boustrophedon' style, meaning that you could carve your line left to right OR right to left, depending on which line you were on in your script. In every script known to linguistics where this writing style is permitted, the characters can be written either way at any time.


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

George Bernard Shaw
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Posted on Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:38 pm
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RunVitki,

thanks for all the new info on this! i always sort of wondered where your name came from and now i know Smile also as one who always craves new knowlege, you gave me a new brain wrinkle and i know where to come if i want to learn more on this subject Smile


what happens when life gives you lemons and you don't like lemonade??

xxxxxHeather

Joined: March 31, 2003
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Posted on Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:20 am
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Everyone,
Glad I could help with info on runic translations - ask me anytime for info. Or readings! Smile

Badfairy,
Yeah, "RunVitki" is broken down into "run + vitki" - Rune Magician. I've been using the pseudonym for a few years now, and it really fits that "mode".

Blaise,
Your info on runic linguistic use - especially in relation to Tolkien - was EXCELLENT. I'm not so good at anything that I'll turn down more info or assume I know everything! Smile I had assumed that he used the Scandinavian set because the "Os" rune kept cropping up, but now that you mention it, I don't remember seeing many of the others in there. I never realized that the dwarven alphabet he used was "artificial" - I ought to reread the appendixes in my copies of the Lord of the Rings!

BTW - part of what affected the direction of the language, no doubt, is that runes were often carved into stone in a spiral pattern - going up and over and around in a spiral - so reading from right to left would have been just as important as reading them left to right.



Joined: April 29, 2002
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Posted on Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:47 pm
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RunVitki wrote:
BTW - part of what affected the direction of the language, no doubt, is that runes were often carved into stone in a spiral pattern - going up and over and around in a spiral - so reading from right to left would have been just as important as reading them left to right.


Very likely. Half the problem I have with translations (aside from only knowing a smattering of each of the seven or so main languages that used runes Smile ), is that you never know what end to start at!

Start at one end, and it might appear you're reading a horrible curse, or protection spell. Start at the other, and you feel like a fool, because you realize it was somebody's shopping list!


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

George Bernard Shaw
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Joined: March 31, 2003
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Posted on Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:56 pm
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I hope the first thing on their list was for "New Chisels" - I don't want to think about how many they would go through to engrave one stone!



Joined: April 29, 2002
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Posted on Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:33 am
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LOL


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

George Bernard Shaw
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Posted on Sun Sep 07, 2003 2:21 am
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Okay folks..I submitted a pic of the finished horn. Still not *completely* satisfied with it..but for now it's done.

I'll give it a proper faire try-out tomorrow at ORF and see how it goes. If I get a few compliments on it at fair..I may keep it the way it is...If I get an offer on it big enough..this may be it's only trip out of the house!!! ;)

here is the pic in the gallery..and the second from a different angle.

HTTP://users.adelphia.net/~chainreaction/forumpics/mead1.jpg
HTTP://users.adelphia.net/~chainreaction/forumpics/mead2.jpg


Rygar
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chainreaction

"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."

--Terry Pratchett

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Posted on Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:37 pm
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*looks at the URL*

You've got Adelphia too, huh?

Nice pics, BTW.



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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:32 am
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Also, before translating into runic, you have to translate into icelandic, as it is almost identical to old norse. It can be kind of difficult, which I have found out (currently learning icelandic). I do the historical recreations, and have chosen the norse culture as my background, and have become immersed in their culture almost as deeply as you can go, so any questions regarding that I'd be happy to help with.

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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:02 am
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Well, rather than translating into icelandic, you could always just use individual runes, and their meanings, on inlays and patterns - a bindrune isn't in ANY language, after all.

But a writing of runes - yeah, that's good to know that icelandic is close to old norse. I'd like to learn it myself, then, I think.



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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:16 am
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Yeah, using the individual runes is always good, like if you want to make some vambraces or something, and put strength on them, or taking some of the combination runes, such as a fertility rune made of about 3 different ones, it would work. In regards to icelandic, they gave school children some runes translated into old norse, and asked them to read it, and they came up with almost identical wording as the old norse translated was. The island nation has stood apart for so long, they have retained much of their ancient heritage.

Tjelvar Tryggvason

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