Project: Automated Process
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Joined: March 27, 2009
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Location: Southeastern Minnesota

Project: Automated Process
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Posted on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:51 pm
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I have a project for school where I am supposed to automate a process. In theory anyway. My motor is mounted on a board so it won't actually do anything.

I have 1 motor (plus driver and controller), 5 switches, 5 LEDs, a buzzer, an inductive sensor (placed near the motor as a form of feedback, I think), an HMI, and a PLC.

The switches can be used for anything, so I can use them as sensors if I need to.

I'm having problems coming up with anything useful that only uses one motor. All of my ideas are either too complicated (require two or more motors) or are too simple (i.e. can be done without the switches and/or the PLC). So it needs to be complicated enough to use the five switches, the HMI, AND the PLC, but simple enough to only require one motor. I suppose I can pretend there is another motor running elsewhere if I really need to. It just depends on the process used.

I need some help coming up with ideas. It would be great if they were maille related, but that isn't a requirement.

Note: for those who may not know, HMI stands for Human Machine Interface. It's basically a touchscreen. PLC is programmable logic controller. It just holds my program.

Joined: March 12, 2003
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Location: Tawas City

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Posted on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:54 am
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umm. what type of switches do you have. and are the leds multi color, what size motor, any limitations?

you could build a ring machine of a sort. using the two die method with mandrel. but i don't know your limets here. all this is basiclt in a disk with sprial cut in it to attach to motor to move dies inwards, a cam to feed wire every up movment, and the switches to tell the plc in what part of the prosses it is in. Leds could be used to show vishualy to the operator the stage of the prosses, or could be set up to show load on the motor. Another use for the leds might be to display that the switchs are beeing triggerd in each step. this might be a little over board thou..lol

on the more electrical side you could build a clock. with the leds, plc, and hmi and use the switches to inshure its rpm or rather 'shake' stays right. you could also program into it an alarm (buzzer).


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

Joined: July 25, 2008
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Posted on Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:36 pm
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Perhaps a rotary tumbler with some type of auto shut off.
ether set for time or for when the drum is removed.

Joined: March 12, 2003
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Location: Tawas City

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Posted on Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:45 pm
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well maby this will explan better, this is NOT what you can do i balive. but yours could be built as a switch back if you have a reversable motor.

VID: continues rotation ring machine from one motor. Vidio is all there but Photobucket is more intersted in showing the add then the last 2 seconds.

http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/MaxumX/?action=view&current=ringmachine_a1.flv


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

Joined: March 27, 2009
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Location: Southeastern Minnesota

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Posted on Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:17 am
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MaxumX wrote:
umm. what type of switches do you have. and are the leds multi color, what size motor, any limitations?

you could build a ring machine of a sort. using the two die method with mandrel. but i don't know your limits here. all this is basically in a disk with spiral cut in it to attach to motor to move dies inwards, a cam to feed wire every up movement, and the switches to tell the plc in what part of the process it is in. Leds could be used to show visually to the operator the stage of the process, or could be set up to show load on the motor. Another use for the leds might be to display that the switches are being triggered in each step. this might be a little over board thou..lol


They are simple toggle switches. The LEDs are all just green (we were on a budget). Motor size...I'd have to look, don't know that off-hand. Limitations, I know it doesn't like it when I try to run it above 100 revolutions per second, but that may be a wiring problem. It shouldn't need to go that fast anyway. The motor is a rotary servo motor and is fully reversible.

It's a little hard to tell from your video what exactly is happening. Is the ring forming on the mandrel and then cut when the disk comes down?

Overboard? No, that seems to be a fairly simple addition. I would actually like the project to be somewhat complex since it will count as my final for this class. If it's too easy to do, I may not get as good a grade (plus I wouldn't learn as much). Complicated is good as long as I can still confine myself to one motor.

Joined: March 12, 2003
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Location: Tawas City

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Posted on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:00 am
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the prosses : the main disk (the big one) is the drive system and the timeing. it has a grove cut into it the is off center and a cycle. the die rides in the lower section of the grove and the feeder in the top section, this give the maching a dealy (physical one no programing this part) for every revolution the feeder pulls in the wire (you have to do the math on the diamiter of wheels and lintghs shafts for it to feed the right amount each time) and then the lowe die is moved onto it at what if i did mine right here about a 90degree delay of the top one, so that they dont try to runn at the same time.

after the wire is fed the die shear cuts it and forses in on to the mandrel, note the mandrel is not round, but a little tear drop shaped to alow the sides of the ring to come in a bit. and the top die is also little more then 1/2 a round, to alow it to shap the tear. the mandrel is on a heavy spring ounted from the back to give it enough force to bend the wire but not enough that it would stop the flywheel. once down the ring is compleated on the bottom die. it is not ejected, this is done by the next ring(s) that are made.

the feeder is a rachetting gear system that is powerd by the up movement of the top (above fly wheel center) guide. and a few movement transfer items to turn linier back in to rotation in a limited manor (in this case 90 degrees then backa again) to crank the rachet and move the wire.

http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/MaxumX/?action=view&current=Movie.flv

little better vid. but i think your going to want somthing in the line of a counter direction system, but the basic is the same. just have two moving dies, and the feeder it on a cam behind the main wheel.


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

Joined: September 21, 2009
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Posted on Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:45 pm
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Can you add some sort of transmission to allow one motor to power different actions? If not, then you're limited to a using the PLC to control motor on/off/speed.

How about an automated anodizing setup? Use the motor to move the batch between prep, annodizing and wash tanks. Use the PLC and HMI to monitor the condition of the baths and program/control how long in each and the voltage/current used. For fun, you could play around with anodizing stainless instead of Al.

Joined: March 12, 2003
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Location: Tawas City

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Posted on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:56 pm
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if you want to put alot of math into it. you could build an automiton. depending on the typr you make the method of construction is pritty simple, thou they tend to take a long time to make. two cam systems one driving left/right one driving up/down (least for drawing ones) full motion ones are far more complex offten having 20-30 cam systems driving diffrent actions. but all in the end drivven by a single screw with a leader on it. witch in your case could be replaced with the plc and switchs using the HMI to select the program and the led to conferm movement of the proper screws/cams in the right order. ectch-a-schech (sp) on the advanced side!


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

Joined: March 27, 2009
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Location: Southeastern Minnesota

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Posted on Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:07 am
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I could pretend like there's a transmission if I really wanted to...maybe...
The anodizing sounds like an interesting option. I suppose I'll have to do some research into the details of how the process works exactly.
maillebob wrote:
For fun, you could play around with anodizing stainless instead of Al.

You can anodize stainless? Or do you mean for pretend?

MaxumX, that sounds cool, but is way out of my capabilities. Unless I had quite a bit of experience with such a thing, I don't think I could come up with a way to make that work. Plus, I doubt my lab partner would go for it. It was a fun idea though.

Joined: September 21, 2009
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Posted on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:42 am
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Vorondil wrote:
I could pretend like there's a transmission if I really wanted to...maybe...


You've said this before, but I can't visualize how that'd work. Either you have one and you can route motor power to different actions, or you don't and you use multiple motors. I don't see how you can pretend to have one yet still have something that works mechanically for them to grade.

Quote:

The anodizing sounds like an interesting option. I suppose I'll have to do some research into the details of how the process works exactly.
maillebob wrote:
For fun, you could play around with anodizing stainless instead of Al.

You can anodize stainless? Or do you mean for pretend?


Honestly, doing it for aluminum anodizing is probably a better project. The process and necessary conditions are well understood and info is easily available online. Better, you might catch the interest of someone with $ who wants to finnance giving your machine an actual try. The HMI/PLC might also come into play in controlling the anodizing process itself.

My comment about stainless wasn't totally serious, but it wasn't totally facetious either. If the paper I read is to be believed, yes, it can be done.. although it uses dangerously caustic and toxic electrolyte solutions (see http://jbcs.sbq.org.br/jbcs/2004/vol15_n4/04-225-03.pdf). It might be a more fun project to work on simply because it hasn't been done before and would be of keen interest to maillers. However, you'd need the cooperation of your teacher before starting. The process is not well understood and there'd be no way to verify it actually works nor even know what parameters you should allow to be tweaked.

Since this is a class project, I'll refrain from suggesting a mechanism (that probably wouldn't work anyway)unless you ask Smile

Joined: March 12, 2003
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Posted on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:08 am
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lol no you can anodize stainless.(*looks to his left*) yup you shure can but its diffrent prosses by a factor or two.

Aluminum anodizatoin prosses: (if memory is correct)
Clean the material, this should be done at around 140 degrees. rinse
Etch: this prosses is not always needed depending on the finished part. done at room temp in a coustic solution. lye dose a good job at this. rinse
Desmut: again a prosses that is not always needed. also done at room temp takes about 1-3min depending on materail and if it been etched. rinse
Anodize: 12 ASF for about 1 hour at room temp. rinse
Dye: Done at 140degs fore 1 min to 1 houre depending on the color desierd. rinse
Seal: Done at 170-180 degrees in Nickel Acetate Sealer for 20 min, rinse and hang part to dry

Steel i know is done, the exact prosses i don't know. but i know its called Inco-colouring. there are a few ways of doing it none of witch i know much about. but i can tell you its done under high(ish) oven temp and humidity control. another method is an electro-chemical process, which creates a super-thin layer of chrome oxide. this procedure works best when the metal has been electropolished and demagnetized.

and i agree a anodization station would be a good project. 12 trays of celical and cleaners always fun. Razz the machine would be simple nothing but a convayer system with "dips" in it to put down the material into the cemicals. just have to make shure you can run the electric thrue to the part at the right amounts, and only ware it is needed. Plc could be used to control the hole prosses from timing to mitiple dips (forward revers cycles) of the part for rinsing and other operations.


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

Joined: March 27, 2009
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Location: Southeastern Minnesota

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Posted on Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:03 am
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Hmm, so you can anodize stainless. Cool. However, after doing some research on the matter, I think it's probably way beyond my capabilities and is likely really expensive as well. I think I'll stick with the aluminum anodizing project. That sounds doable and yet challenging enough for my purposes. Thank you to everyone for the help.

Joined: September 21, 2009
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Posted on Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:30 am
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Vorondil wrote:
I think I'll stick with the aluminum anodizing project. That sounds doable and yet challenging enough for my purposes. Thank you to everyone for the help.


Even better as a class project might be to automate copper electroplating. Not as interesting from a maille perspective, but the machine to move the part through various baths and control the operation would probably be very similar to what you'd want for anodizing.

The advantage is that it only takes some copper sulphate, a hunk of copper and electricity. No chemicals are safe, but copper sulphate is probably safer than some of the stuff that's used for anodizing. Its also fairly cheap if you wanted to test the machine for real.

If it were me, I'd probably design for electroplating with extensibility to anodizing so I was sure I had a completed project to turn in for a grade. If electroplating ended up being too easy that I didn't think I'd get a good grade, I'd up the difficulty by switching to anodizing. Else just keep that extension for personal use in the future.

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