Should we appoint a moderator specifically for IRC chat?
View previous topic | View next topic >
Post new topic Reply to topic
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Admin Discussion
   
Author Message

Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 1491
Submissions: 0

Should we appoint a moderator specifically for IRC chat?
Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:44 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Hey everyone, Kim brought up a suggestion that I thought warranted consideration and discussion by the BOD, but I thought it might be a good idea to start clean over here since the thread it is posted in is a little...long at the mo'.

Here's his post from the thread in Chat:

sakredchao wrote:
one thing i noticed has not been mentioned in here is that there was a direct violation of one of our content guidelines. there was an ad hominem attack in #mail. the instance has been resolved, but the problem, in my mind, is that the channel is pretty lawless. we do not even attempt to adhere to the site content guidelines. i say "we" as a person who will go there when i'm online with extra time. i have even been seen to joke about how we're breaking rules.

right now tarazed is our op in there, mostly so it isn't hijacked like #chainmaille was during the origins.

perhaps it is worth attempting to apply the content guidelines to #mail. it is not really a part of "our site", it is made so by extension. yes, it may make it more boring and less of a place to play, but there are other channels available to goof off in. we have enough regular ops around to keep behavior in check in that channel.


I think this could be a good idea, but I have some questions as I'm not very knowledgeable as to how the room was started, who actually "owns" it, where else it is linked from, etc. etc.

First, was this room started by M.A.I.L.? Is entry to it exclusive to M.A.I.L. users, or exclusive to those linking from our header? If it is, then my opinion would be that our charter and rules of conduct absolutely apply to that room 100%, and therefor it should be modded officialy.

On the other hand, if it is just another "room" in chat land that anyone can get to and we simply have conveniently linked in our header, then my opinion would be that it does not fall under our charter or rules of conduct, and an official M.A.I.L. moderator is not required. If we require strict rules in a room we do not "own" and merely link to, then I suppose we should police every site in our links section to make sure whatever is on them is covered by our charter and rules of conduct. I would still feel however that as it is a place frequented by M.A.I.L. users and members that the BOD should conduct themselves as they would in the forums when they're in there.

Kim also nominated MintChrissy as a potential mod for that room if that's the way we decide to go, citing that she spends a lot of time in there as of late. Personally, and I mean NO offense by this what so ever, I would not like to see her appointed mod. I would personally prefer to see someone appointed who has demonstrated that they have the ability to democratically confront the person or persons who they feel are acting inappropriately. I don't think she's demonstrated that based on what I've seen from the current discussion regarding admin behavior in the IRC chat room. This is simply my opinion on the traits I would like to see any appointed mod to have, and in no way is intended as a dig, stab, jibe, or derogatory remark towards MintChrissy.

Thoughts?

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2827
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:58 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Okay, well, I can clear a bit of this up...

The room is 'owned' per-se by Tarazed... That is, she registered it after the original registration (I believe by chao?) lapsed due to inactivity (The old MAIL Chat client died... So until I installed a new one, it was rather empty)

Entry is not exclusive to MAIL users, nor is the client linked via the header the only way to access it. It is simply a channel on the DarkMyst network.

Regarding ownership... Tarazed is pretty easy going... Registering the channel as more of a service to MAIL than anything, to ensure nothing nasty happened... Ala what I am to understand happened to mailartisans.org

As for MintChrissie... While I've seen her in the memberlist pretty much every time I'm there, I can't recall seeing her actually say anything...
chao has also suggested promoting Tarazed on more than one occasion...

Personally, I'm a little leary about any significant changes to the BOD membership amid the current... "political" climate... Though I recognize the need to help Legba3 out, as she has indicated that she would like to be freed of the weaves workload... But that is another conversation...

I hope I cleared some things up Confused


Useful Links
Site Help: [ BBCode Help | Weave AR/Ring Size Popup | Login Issues ]
Weave AR Search is back: Try it out!

Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 1491
Submissions: 0

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:13 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

That clears a lot up for me at least, and actually leads me to another thought.

How feasible is it in all reality to have a mod in there? Frankly, as it's live, and the chat logs are not static like they are in a forum thread, we'd basically have to have a mod in there every second of the day policing conversations, or at the very least have someone willing to comb over chat logs that we'd somehow have to store/make available to the admin on a daily basis. Plus, anyone that came to the room from another entry point than the M.A.I.L. site would have no knowledge of the charter and rules of conduct, which to my mind would lead to more problems.

And really, how many people use the IRC chat? I've only popped in a few times, and really it seems to be about the same 10-15 people max every time.

I dunno', the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of an official mod presence in the room. Honestly, I think given what has been going on the last week, any admin chatting in there will be on their toes from here on out.

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2827
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:18 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Well that's the thing...

Between Phong, Cynake, Myself, lorraine, and ZiLi (And Tarazed who keeps the peace unofficially)... There is pretty much *always* someone from the BOD around who is awake...

We may not any of us be specifically 'Chat Room Moderators' by title... But we're there to kick anyone that shows up spamming, and keep an eye to make sure nothing gets out of hand...

There was actually a small discussion between a few of the users currently in there when you posted this thread regarding the futility of any more moderators being added, but that's besides the point.

The most users at any one time, I can recall ever seeing is in the 25 users range... The current count is at 21 (Including two of the DarkMyst service bots... So 19 real users)

Quite often, the 'average' chat user, is a new MAIL member that has a specific and urgent question... We've fielded everything from AR math to Tools to Inlay questions... And that's just within the past week or two.


Useful Links
Site Help: [ BBCode Help | Weave AR/Ring Size Popup | Login Issues ]
Weave AR Search is back: Try it out!

Joined: April 29, 2002
Posts: 3212
Submissions: 93
Location: Albany, New York

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:58 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

In years past we had a group of moderators who kinda oversaw the old chainmail chat. If you (any admin) look in the forum list, you'll see there was an old forum just for them to discuss it! It was used like once, I think.

The impression I got back then was that they all kinda gave up on the idea of modding the chat, because a) it moved too fast, and b) it was hard to keep a consistently acting mod there at all times...


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

George Bernard Shaw
___________________________________

Maille Code V1.0 T5.7 R5.1 Fhd MCu Wc Cd G2.03/.56 I9.75/3.25 Pn Dacdjs S97 CCi

Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 1491
Submissions: 0

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:06 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Blaise wrote:

The impression I got back then was that they all kinda gave up on the idea of modding the chat, because a) it moved too fast, and b) it was hard to keep a consistently acting mod there at all times...


That's pretty much what I'm envisioning it would be like to mod the chat now.

So, I guess officially my position has gone from "it could be a good idea" to "sounds like a major headache, let's just live and learn and carry on".

Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:50 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

I hate being censored, but, I suspect many would like to censor me Razz

In my opinion we don't need any new BOD members. Any BOD member that's ever in chat, is given ops (not automatically, but as soon as you register a nick, someone generally gets around to it, took me a few months before someone bothered).

#mail being active is only a very recent thing. In my understanding, its history goes something like this. Tara (not an admin here, or anywhere, posts once a year, and checks forums maybe twice a year) owns the chan. She works from home, sits there ~16 hours a day. She registered it and babysat it just in case anyone showed up. For the few years that the chat link from here was broken, just about no one used it. Anyone can join, from anywhere, by any method, but only one person every 6 months or so even popped in or out.

When the link was repaired and a new java client set up by DL so that it was easy for MAIL users to join, still no one used it. Or people would show up, see no one was there, and leave within 30 seconds. So the room got used mostly as an overflow room from other communities. If two conversations took off at the same time in another room, random people would stop by and use #mail instead, since it was vacant.

And then, being the smartypants that I am, I changed the chan topic to something like "Wait 15 minutes for someone to notice you're here before leaving.", and ta da. Newbies stayed around long enough for us to help answer questions.

But still, no one stayed there. A lot of drivebys. So it still got used as an overflow room, except when a newbie showed up.

Lately, with talk specifically about MAIL, with some admins actually from MAIL showing up to talk (which is rare), it's held a decent amount of conversation. Probably more this week than the last 5 years combined.

We had a bit of a chat today about it and being moderated. Most people (not regulars, it's swelled a bit since) don't see a point or an effective way of doing it.

Basic moderation duties would include:

- Kicking spammers
- Kicking bots
- Kicking anyone who's harassing anyone else.

Possibly expanded moderation duties would include:

- Kicking people with potty mouths
- Kicking people who post adult pictures

... in accordance with our content policies.

However, most people don't see a point in the latter two. It's chat, not posting. If people are going to have to act like they're in church, the channel will simply not get used, and people will go elsewhere, so.. *shrug* No one will be around to answer questions, no conversation will happen, etc.

Anyone can join by using any IRC client, not just by clicking our link. Anyone, MAIL user or genderly-ambiguous internet prostitute from Sweden (real example). People type in whatever they want for their usernames, so it's not linkable with their MAIL profile. It's pretty laissez-faire. We should probably change the chat page to be a little more wary of what people might be walking into.

If anyone should get modded, it should be Tara, she babysat the place for so long and while she mailles, she has just about complete disinvolvement from any group. She's like the Blaise of chat. I suspect she'd be a bit grumpy if people asked her to relinquish her founder status to MAIL though.

But, I say, leave it alone.

There's plenty of moderators there, it's a matter of if we should actually bother trying to enforce the full extent of the content policy there.

Joined: April 29, 2002
Posts: 3212
Submissions: 93
Location: Albany, New York

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:47 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

In thinking about it, I'm inclined to say our rules don't really apply there. A separate group runs the IRC server, and a private person runs the room, so it's not really ours to control.

I definitely think a warning about the non-complying nature from our link is a good idea, but beyond that....


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

George Bernard Shaw
___________________________________

Maille Code V1.0 T5.7 R5.1 Fhd MCu Wc Cd G2.03/.56 I9.75/3.25 Pn Dacdjs S97 CCi

Joined: August 10, 2005
Posts: 7026
Submissions: 294

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:54 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

It doesn't seem feasible to moderate it to me.

Maybe just a note to say that it's not moderated.


Maille Code
V2.0 T7.3 R5.4 Ep Feur MAg/Cu Wm$ Cbjpw$ G0.5/3.0 I1.5/12.0 N322.150 Pajs Dacdjsw Xa7g631p4t24w64 S88 Hipsu

Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 1491
Submissions: 0

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:35 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Blaise wrote:
In thinking about it, I'm inclined to say our rules don't really apply there. A separate group runs the IRC server, and a private person runs the room, so it's not really ours to control.

I definitely think a warning about the non-complying nature from our link is a good idea, but beyond that....



I'd have to agree 100%.

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2827
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:29 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

I cobbled a quick disclaimer together... Warning: I am not Willard Sharkspear.... So someone please re-write it if they feel it is inappropriate or poorly worded.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/chat/


Useful Links
Site Help: [ BBCode Help | Weave AR/Ring Size Popup | Login Issues ]
Weave AR Search is back: Try it out!

Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 1491
Submissions: 0

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:38 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Looks fine to me.

*wonders where the little "@" is next to her name, pout*

Seriously, don't care, just being silly

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2827
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:44 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Deirdre wrote:
Looks fine to me.

*wonders where the little "@" is next to her name, pout*

Seriously, don't care, just being silly


Psst, you have to show up more than once a month for that Wink
Not to mention register your nickname Razz
I told you, we need to get you a standalone IRC client... Get chao to talk you through it!
(Like how I volunteered you there chao? Very Happy)


Useful Links
Site Help: [ BBCode Help | Weave AR/Ring Size Popup | Login Issues ]
Weave AR Search is back: Try it out!

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4372
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:29 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

"voluntold" ... sure, i can talk you through it, D, if it's a pita.

for the record, i've talked to tara once or twice about being on the BOD here, she's not really interested. or she wasn't.

i'm not attached either way, i only suggested it as a solution to all the "we complained but nothing was done" comments i saw in the 'chat' thread. i also chose a person who was not already a part of the irc clique (which i see pretty plainly, as a participant there.) in my mind, their job would be to do what tara told them to, not follow their own motivations.

tara said she would go with whatever decision the bod made.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 1491
Submissions: 0

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:43 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

sakredchao wrote:
"voluntold" ... sure, i can talk you through it, D, if it's a pita.


The only thing that's a pita is getting around to doing it. Why don't you hop a bus, come on over and just do it for me, hmmmmm? I'll make elk stew again....

Post new topic Reply to topic
Jump to:  
Page 1 of 3. Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
All times are GMT. The time now is Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:19 am
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Admin Discussion
Display posts from previous: