The copyright notice
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Joined: August 10, 2005
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The copyright notice
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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:52 am
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I know that this notice is around (at bottom of page in Articles for instance http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/ and at the bottom of the page on each article) but I think it would be a good idea to make this clearer/more visible. Maybe we could move the notice to the top of the page???

I recently stumbled upon a site offering classes in chainmaille and as I saw a couple of my weaves on the list, I contacted the person concerned to find out that they print out the articles here and use them for paid classes!
I have told them that this is illegal and that they need permission from the authors to do this or make their own tuts based on ours with their own text and pics.

I can't help thinking this is not an isolated incidence.


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Joined: April 29, 2002
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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:51 pm
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I'm quite certain it isn't! Copyright, in the traditional sense, is nearly meaningless in the age of the internet. The best you can hope for is to stop people from making money off your stuff, and even there, you have to find them first. It's a really big internet...


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

George Bernard Shaw
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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:19 pm
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I guess it's most likely just an excuse but they said they had no idea that they couldn't do what they were doing.

BTW I found out recently that you/me/we really do need to do a search every now and then to root these people out because if we don't give them notice (like we did with the content theft recently) any action we wish to take in future could be lessened.
Basically if we find anything that infringes we have to let the person concerned know that we know and are prepared to do something about it.

Did anyone here see the thread on TRL about the guy using other people's photos and passing the work off as his own? There were 2 or 3 of mine there apparently.

This kind of thing really upsets me because I share a lot and if/when anyone ever asks me I nearly always say yes. Now I'm a lot more inclined not too share and say no. That's kinda sad.


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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:43 pm
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Actually it isn't illegal to copy the tutorials and distribute them to a class, it would only be illegal if you were charging money for the tutorials themselves. Even then, allowances are generally made for a small fee to cover the costs of printing. Whether the teacher is being paid or not really has nothing to do with it.


http://www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:45 pm
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From what I could gather a print out of the tut was part of the class the people were paying for.


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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:22 pm
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Which should still be covered by fair use, there is a lot of grey area but unless they are specifically selling the tutorial I wouldn't call it illegal.

Realistically though, there's no harm done, the printable versions still contain the URL of the MAIL site and your copyright. It would be inconvenient and silly if we tried to force teachers to bring in a computer and printer so each student could access the site personally and print off a copy.


http://www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:46 pm
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lorenzo wrote:
... there's no harm done, the printable versions still contain the URL of the MAIL site and your copyright ...


As long as that is fulfilled, all will be well. But even I experienced cases (outside of MAIL), where contents were stripped off their copyright and source remarks, so nobody would be able to acknowledge that the sharer of information was not also its author. And THAT has to be fought. In my case an 'honorable' Mr. Prof.Dr. (and his publishing company) had to stop publishing a book based on a script written by me, and to pay a 'courtesy' - fortunately I was able to prove my authorship...

-ZiLi-


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Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

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Posts: 7026
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Posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:08 pm
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Actually the text and photos are owned solely buy the authors and even if they are not being sold any copying and distribution has to have the express permission of the author. This may not always happen (rarely does) but it is still the requirement of the law.


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Posted on Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:19 am
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Legba3 wrote:
any copying and distribution has to have the express permission of the author.


This is incorrect, most countries have exceptions in copyright law. In the UK it's called "fair dealing" in the US it's called "fair use", in Canada it can be called either. If the person who used your tutorials lives in any of those three countries(or most others) then what they did is very likely legal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing

It could also be argued that by posting your tutorials free for public download on this site, and specifically in a printer friendly format you have effectively encouraged this use.

Also keep in mind that the copyright blurb on MAIL is only a legal disclaimer, a CYA in case people abuse the system. The writing on the top of every page on this site states the purpose and spirit of MAIL.

"M.A.I.L. (Maille Artisans International League) is an international community of artisans and volunteers dedicated to the advancement of the chainmaille artform. We aim to encourage the sharing and spreading of information, archiving as many techniques and weaves as possible."

So effectively this person used your tutorials, legally, and for the exact purposes that our site recommends, in a format facilitated and encouraged by both yourself and MAIL in general. If that bothers you then perhaps you should reconsider whether you want these tutorials of yours to be publicly available on MAIL.


http://www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

Joined: August 10, 2005
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Posted on Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:37 am
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This has been argued before and weather you like it or not the way the tuts have been used is stealing if this wasn't so then the person recently stealing content from here wouldn't have been asked to remove it from their site.
I'm not going to waste my time going over and over this. The law is clear people can only use the content for themselves it is illegal to distribute without permission.

My tuts (and others) were not used as the site intends and I for one will be exerting my legal rights in this issue. The site intends for people to use the knowledge themselves not make money out of other peoples work and I have shared my knowledge.

I now quote the copyright notice word for word:

All web content copyright 2000-2009 The Maille Artisans International League (M.A.I.L.). Articles, Weaves, Links, and Gallery submissions are the property of the author(s), and any reproduction requires their express written permission.

The Maille Artisans International League (M.A.I.L.) and any affiliates thereof will not be held responsible for any injuries or mishaps in the use or misuse of any information presented at this website whether intentional or coincidental.

Maille construction is not intended for children or intended to be taken lightly. Care must be taken at all times, as sharp hand and power tools may be used, as well as other materials capable of causing injuries or repetitive stress disorders. Take precautions and have fun mailling responsibly.



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Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:03 pm
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Well, to add to Legba's words: The copyright laws were somewhen introduced with a purpose - the purpose to give the original creator (or people given/inherited the rights by/from the creator) a lawful possibility to steer the spreading of the creation(s) - and basically the creator has ALL rights to decide, how, and in which amount copies of the creator's work may be spread.

I AM thankful for the existance of the German 'Urheberrechtsgesetz', as it allowed me to regain control over my work. In fact the copyright laws were introduced also, to limit these author rights that were 'naturally given' without any special law by the basic laws, by making exceptions nowadays described as fair and/or educational use/dealing. And these laws are the basis in some countries to inherit courtesy fees, e.g. in Germany there will be a small fee for any photocopy from copyrighted material made in copy shops lead to 'VG Wort', that spreads this money to authors. In fact only a few authors get a noticable income by this way, but the fact THAT they do, even centwise, counts nevertheless.

And don't forget, that in most national and also internationally agreed upon copyright laws the conscious removal of copyright notices is already a violation of these copyright laws. And that is e.g. given, if someone holding a course prints tuts downloaded here, and shares them AFTER REMOVING the copyright notices and URL remarks - even if sharing for free, as that impairs the author's rights to control the use. And that is obviously the case described in the original post of this thread.

-ZiLi-


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Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: August 30, 2008
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Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

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Posted on Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:20 pm
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Unfortunately, a copyright decleration, no matter how carefully, or explicitly worded cannot circumvent Fair Use laws...

We can say 'no reproduction, full stop' but in the eyes of the law, what we actually said was 'no reproduction, except for personal or private educational use, provided the original document is unmodified and intact'

This doesn't mean people have right to use the information verbatim, and call themselves the original author, however.

Fair Use is always a grey area, but the fact of the matter is that the law upholds it, and no matter how much we forbid it, or how big we make the copyright, we cannot actually legally prevent it.

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Posted on Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:05 pm
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Fair use does not cover copying the document in its entirety and distributing it to others. That right belongs to the copyright holder only. This holds true whether you are using it for teaching purposes or not, charging for it or not. Fair use is making a copy for yourself. Fair use is using an excerpt to make a point in your own writings. There are lots of myths floating around the internet about copyrights. When people quote these myths as fact, then they proliferate and take on a life of their own. Fair use is not just whatever the thief thinks it should be. Yes, there is a great deal of legal discussion still going on about the definition of fair use. But it never covers copying the entire document and distributing it to others.

Whenever you put something "out there" people will copy it, use it, whatever they want to with it. It happens every day, probably every second of every day. But doing those things does not magically change the laws and make it any less copyright infringement. If someone does not care what is done with their writings, that's fine. But the copyright laws are there to protect the people who do care. The only person who can assert their rights is the copyright holder. No one is scanning the internet to assert others copyrights for them. If Legba is bothered by this then she has every right to do something about it without being scolded.


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Posted on Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:15 pm
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I guess that nobody here is against the fair use regulations, but we should enforce their PROPER execution nevertheless, by all available means - the laws give us the means to do so.

And adorning oneself with borrowed plumes, by conscious removal or even replacement of authorship information definitely isn't proper or fair use - that's fraud.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2833
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

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Posted on Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:28 pm
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I apologize if anyone feels scolded by my remarks here, they are not intended to attack or shut down someone else's opinion. My opinions are just that, an opinion on a topic, and nothing more.

However, my stance remains the same. Teaching is MAIL's 'raison d'etre'... Getting back to the original topic, however...

I feel the copyright notice is as sternly worded, and as conspicuously placed as it needs to be... Placing it in large letters at the top of the printed document will change nothing... An unscrupulous person will continue to do as they wish, and feign ignorance no matter how bold a warning is...

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