I once heard word of a print edition
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Joined: March 20, 2008
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I once heard word of a print edition
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Posted on Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:16 pm
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I think a a print edition of the (surely condensed) of all the best techniques and all weaves would be something I would invest in ,just because.With the amount most of us spend on wire, tools and the like I bet there would be lots who would invest in a print edition ,the first edition could be a little expensive but full of good stuff and a buyer would be helping to support M.A.I.L. and every so often a followup edition could be released and surely they would provide even better revenue for mail as most of the ground work would already be done . It might lure non net users into our community

thoughts anyone, perhaps someone knows of a previously raised issue as to why this hasn't been done yet?

Joined: November 01, 2004
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Posted on Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:29 pm
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I still think that would be a good idea. We tried writing a book once, a year or two back, and got a good start before motivation sort of ran out. The thread is still under Group Projects, here. But the forum Ninjatails set up is no longer there, and that means all our drafts and later discussions are gone. Sad
There has also been talk of a Wiki, and of publishing a compendium of various artists and their work (I think that was on TRL, not sure what became of it). In short, it's been proposed in various ways several times, and the only reason it hasn't happened is because it's a big undertaking for a completely volunteer labor base. If someone wanted to try, I think the enthusiasm would be there to get a good group together and started. The problem would still be finishing, but I'd love to see it happen.



Joined: March 20, 2008
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Posted on Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:29 am
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I think the large part of the info is here
there needs to be an introduction
a basic tools and materials section ,some of the most useful charts maybe a section on inlays and then a compendium of weaves thirty say, then a few each, choice articles on both armor and jewelry as well as maybe a few of the other more out there possibilities
I think the hardest parts are
A: getting the mods to approval of the Idea (without this our source material non existent)
B: getting it printed (gotta do the work, then get pre paid orders ,then get it printed and ship it)
C: choosing the most important info, including enough for the beginner to get started and still attract the passionate veteran of M.A.I.L
keeping a balance between jewelry and armor

what is really amazing is this could come out once a year (or more o0ften )there could be an Armoring special edition
or an all about elfweave issue
the possibilities a almost limitless
this is an exciting possibility to me

Joined: November 01, 2004
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Location: Allendale, MI

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Posted on Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:06 pm
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Now you're talking. We were trying to write a reference volume pretty much from scratch last time. It sounds like you're more interested in an annual journal type thing. Simply organizing pre-existing content would be a lot easier and most likely feasible.
About getting permission, though...I think we may need more than the mods' approval. When you submit an article, you give MAIL permission to publish on the "site." I'm hardly a legal expert, but would it be fudging too much to say that publishing an article in this compendium is also all right because it's an extension of the MAIL site? I'm iffy on that. I'm sure that if we notified the original authors and asked for their permission, most if not all would be fine with publishing in a printed version, so long as they are properly credited. But it would be a courtesy to not simply assume their consent.
I think the idea's sound, though. Like I said, I too would love to see something of this sort happen, and the way you're proposing it sounds like a much better approach.



Joined: March 20, 2008
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Posted on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:45 am
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I had not though of that but I beileive they also assure the right to reproduce while crediting the author we should consult on this but all that being said there is just so much material and so many details and personal opinion
I was thinking of polling members for article inclusion if we are unsure
and like you said there is something so cool about an ongoing edition but it starts with a solid base which could nbe offered on an on going basis
because it is so all consuming when you get into it a nice thick book would appeal to alot of newbs and is just a nice thing to have around the house anyway for vets plus it would really help raise funding and having print would broadin M.A.I.L. horizons
goto go talk more later

Joined: November 01, 2004
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Location: Allendale, MI

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Posted on Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:50 pm
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All right, this is all sounding good. We'll need writers, editors, admin approval if not aid (I don't want to heap anything extra on their plates but some input from the top veterans would be great). We'll need to start sifting through the vast archives of MAIL to get an idea of what we want. Also, a poll in the Knitting Circle may be in order to be sure that we'll even have an audience. That could also help to bring in volunteers.



Joined: March 20, 2008
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Posted on Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:56 pm
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I reread the submission consent we must get their permission to republish but as you mentioned before this shouldn't be hard in most cases I am most concerned about members that are no longer active ,(hockey weirdo 55 did tons of cool stuff but I don't think he is around much anymore and there are certainly others ) I am going to start looking for articles of interest and make a list(you might like to do the same ,and we can compare ) I would like to have a good picture of the structure of before presenting it to the mods but in about a week I would go for the poll Idea but I would like to talk to the mods first and if they are iffy on the Idea maybe we use the poll to help convince them of the validity of the Idea.
and like you said it may help us gather the gang of misfits needed to make this happen but we need a basic direction first or it will be a free for all and all hell could (and would )break loose and the thing will never end up getting done .

Joined: November 01, 2004
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Posted on Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:54 am
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Concurred. I'm going to start sifting in between reading the pile of books I just got from the library...I know, where *are* my priorities lol.

I just had a thought. If we're going to include a portion of the weave library, shall we devote a portion of the articles chosen to tutorials for those weaves? It could get lengthy but I think it would be the logical thing to do.

Thought #2. If possible, when we see an article that we like but whose author we know to be mostly inactive, we should probably look for similar articles as backup...probably obvious but thought I'd mention it.



Joined: March 20, 2008
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Posted on Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:53 am
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I agree with all those Ideas
we are going to need some tuts
I am already looking into articles of interest but am interested to see what your list turns up as you have been doing this longer than I have
I think this will help us get a broader perspective
so far I have about twenty five articles it is a little large but as a first edition and a base edition for any(dreaming in technicolor )future edition I think it would be important(it could be Like a baseline bible ) there are holes that editorials would have to fill in the blanks and link certain info
and perhaps a barbones copy of the glossary (I know not all buyers would be newbs but using the terms in some of these articles would be useless if the reader is unable to to understand us (we will have to eventually pair that down but I would hold off until we have a list of articles and the additional text before deciding what will stay and go)

Joined: November 01, 2004
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Posted on Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:24 pm
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A glossary would be good. And yes there will be some holes to fill...for one thing, we really don't seem to have one good stand-alone basic coif tutorial with good pics, instructions, and technique...
But here's my list so far.
Armor: DA's is a good practical intro; Konstantin's is comprehensive, useful, and entertaining; but only Aderamelech has pics. Is it worth the page space to use all three?
Beginners: Again, DA has an excellent intro, this time with pics, yay. Blaise's "Know Your Pliers" article may also be of use, but I think "Know Your Maille Terms" could be replaced by the glossary.
Coloring Metals: Well we have a lot of these but I don't know that it's vital to include them, however thexnihil has a good summary.
Construction: I didn't dig too much into this but I like Blaise's Know Your Plan, and Spyderbeak has a couple of conversion charts that it would probably be prudent to insert at some point. Of the many coil winding techniques, I thought Stephen's looked simplest. I didn't touch the powerwinding articles because I have no experience in that area.
Jewelry: Well I guess it makes sense to have one tutorial for integrating beads, and how about a clasp or two? I don't think the others are really necessary...the pendants maybe...
I've got more but I have to post now because my mom is demanding that we go out to eat now. Smile



Joined: November 01, 2004
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Posted on Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:18 am
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Okay I'm back.
Misc: Galileo's What am I going to weave next? was the only one that caught my eye. Unless we want to include the Maille Code...which actually doesn't seem like such a bad idea, now I think about it...
It might be nice to have tuts for a few basic projects, so --
Patterns: DA's Maille Pouch, Tess' Hackysacks, Hockyweirdo's Ties, Deirdre's Celtic Stars, and maybe a bikini/bra article.
We should probably have one or two on polishing but I don't think I'm the one to decide which would work best. Most of them I haven't tried.
I'm mixed about riveted articles. Sure it's important to the craft if you're a serious armorer, but I feel like one tutorial won't do it justice, and if we can't summarize it why pretend to? This might be a good place for an editorial of some sort.
Safety: Probably good to at least mention this. And I think sakredchao's Stretches would be a handy one to have in print.
Supplies is the last one before Weaves, which is a project on its own, and I'm thinking the same of Welded as I did of Riveted. There's some good stuff in the Supplies category and I think this one could offer several articles, probably to go along with Beginners/Construction. One wire-hunting article would be good, and I like this disambiguation of galvy by Tesserex.

This list is based on a pretty cursory examination, and lots lots lots of it is just my opinion, so I expect it to change considerably just with consideration of yours, not to mention input from the wider community.



Joined: March 20, 2008
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Posted on Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:22 am
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I have a few similarities and a few that differ on my list unfortunately I'm on vacation in toronto right now and don't have my list off hand one of the ones I agree with is stephens winding articles
I think so of the tools and a few other things such as the stretches (as they are very subjective)we might be able to cover in a seperate text we add (maybe with the use of some of those articles )
as for the armoring as my experience is limited in this feild I will have to go to you for a well formed opinion(I in fact limited my list to 25 figuring five articles should cover a basic intro to armoring ) perhaps these folks would allow partial or portions of their articles used with you as an overall editor of that section

Joined: November 01, 2004
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Posted on Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:41 am
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Goodness, there are people far more qualified than me to do the armor stuff...I've never even made a shirt for combat.
I can cover noob to intermediate stuff in that category, but I've only been doing this for five years, and that only off and on...I can hardly claim to talk to the real experts -- the ten-to-thirty-year types. Not shirking mind you, just pointing out that I'd be drastically underqualified for some parts of this. I think I'd be better spent on weaves or general construction. Or photography...I'm wondering if the authors of some of these articles would consent to having their photos updated? Because there are lots of articles with pictures that work for the web but that wouldn't necessarily be print quality. But yeah, I know how to make a costume shirt but I can't claim to know armor too well.



Joined: March 20, 2008
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Posted on Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:19 am
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a point taken but you could certainly provide more insight than me
I'm home I am compiling the actual link in a single file but these are the articles by name and author in
no particular order

How to make easy mandrels-Legba3
Stephens power winder-Stephen
where to hunt for wire-Tiger Khan
Aspect ratio-Vacacita
Ring size conversion chart-Spyderbeak
SWG AWG Metric-Mjodvitnir
Simple clasp-Nearoth
Euro4-1-laurad
Boxchain-eli
byzantine speed weaving-Anon
dragonscale-tesserex
euro6-1-aderamelech
inverted round-cohort
turkishround-cohort
aura weave-legba3
barrel weave-clifford parker
celtic vision-dragonlad
making whirlybirds-you (I think she will consent to be printed)
persian dragonsclae-chaos sraphim
helm chain-gnomeofdoom
fp6-1-katerye
hp3-1 on a wire-(I seem to have missed the author )
there is much to add at this point but I started by spotting those I thought would allow us to also integrate base techniques and terminology

as for the photos it would be great to have either somewhat uniform photos (or CGI) I am not sure which would be best but if we went CGI i would say it would be important to at least include a photo of each weave from each differing angle.

Joined: November 01, 2004
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Location: Allendale, MI

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Posted on Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:52 pm
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So we agree on some but not others...yours are more construction-oriented, mine are more widespread. And I still haven't sorted through the weaves, but yours pretty much look good.

I'd have mixed feelings about going all-CGI. It can be really good when done properly but sometimes it gets...off...you can do things on a computer that you can't in real life. For example, this really weirded me out: Weaving Box Sheet by one of my personal chainmaille heroes, Derakon. Excellent tutor but he's done accidentally made FP instead of Box. And I've seen renders that were supposed to be FP but were actually just 2-2-2, arranged in a way that would never have held IRL. In photographic tutorials the rings never get arranged in imaginary ways, and more importantly, in ways the tutoree can't copy. So I tend to think that whatever the pictures are (photo or CGI), as long as you can see them and they make sense, don't bother with standardizing them all to one or the other. Different story for photos/CGI that don't make sense, though...



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