Turkish Round and Up?
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Joined: April 2, 2012
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Turkish Round and Up?
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Posted on Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:41 am
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Hey MAIL, its 3:30 am and the sleepless are curious.

I just made a couple of units of Turkish Round today and its lovely, and as I walked to 7 11 for dog food (read: taquitos) and smokes, I got to wondering.

Regular Turkish Round uses a 1-1 chain unit 6 rings long as a base. I was wondering, though if anyone maybe tried it with a larger base, maybe an 8 ring or 10 ring base, to create maybe Turkish Squares or a Turkish Pentagon. Anybody out there attempt this yet, or have notes on the subject? Either way, Im going to do some experimenting before work tomorrow, but input is always appreciated!


-The Mighty Ramtide

Joined: April 2, 2012
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Location: CA

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Posted on Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:01 pm
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Talking to myself here.. But ima put this down for anyone curious.

I followed the Turkish Round pattern for a 1-1 chain8 rings long. The Byzantine style links are still there, but the chain is a little loose because of a wide empty cehenter. When the chain is short, this is easy to rectify by sealing off one end with a couple rings, but I donknow hoew long I can make this thing before the hollow interior becomes an issue again. Sealing it off after a couple units and then starting a new section might be easoer, but Ill see if I cant captive some rings to make it stay further. Pics will come if I ever get a computer.

Edit: plcing a captive ring in tge inner plane close to the end of the chain makes it almoat inflexible. Attempt 2 later tonight.


-The Mighty Ramtide

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:52 pm
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i guess issues only pop up when you go to apply the weave to a certain project. it may not make the best bracelet, but it might work in other applications.

also, if you wind your own, you could put in captive ring(s) to sturdy it up... but i suspect that is pretty AR specific.


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3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Posted on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:59 am
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Four sided: Celtic Roundmaille.

Not sure at this point if I agree with the name.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
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Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:22 am
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definitely sure that i disagree with the name.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1545
Submissions: 266
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:41 am
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I'd call it Quad Turkish Round at least. There are no Celtic interactions (based on Celtic Visions) involved.

I put some together at 3.2. Very tight. Strangely it seems like the minimum AR. Strange because I'd done straight up Turkish Round in 3.1 once and figured the Quad version would be at least that low.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
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Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:39 pm
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do the spacers start to overlap, like in the weave submission?

i am a firm believer that weaves like this have multiple ARs at min measurement.

by "weaves like this" i mean, weaves which have more than 1 interaction style. e4 has 1 interaction style. fp6, hp3, hp3s6 all have 1 interaction style. the connector rings cause there to be a second interaction style, giving a second AR in minimum measurements.

i know this is contrary to our current system, but i've always been a little contrary canary in this coal mine of concepts.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1545
Submissions: 266
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:37 pm
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Completely understandable.

I recently stated my favourite single ring size weave is Staggered Captive Inverted Round Sheet. Alas, this weave has more than one ring type and this could alter the actual minimum AR values. Then there is the possibility that there are more than one listed min AR combination. It can be done in one ring size at an AR of 5.4 (one captive version), but recently I made some with the CIR chains having an AR of 5.5, and connectors at an AR of 5.2. Japanese 8/12 in 2 weaves have multiple combos, I'm pretty sure.

With this piece of Quad Turkish Round, I now potentially see the spacers being bumped down slightly. The normal Turkish Round that I made at an AR of 3.1 a few weeks ago would likely allow the same.

And it's not that the spacers overlap, it's that they get squished slightly out of what would be their natural resting position. Overlap is not a word I would use, but then, this sample is very tight.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
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Joined: April 2, 2012
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Location: CA

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Posted on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:16 pm
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Upon further examination of my atempt at this celtic roundmaille ( turkish rounded up? Very Happy), its so funny because I forgot some spacers and saw how easily this can become a tube of E4in1. Thus why byz is in the euro family, huh? But enough anecdotal observation...

Attepted it with a 1-1 of 10 rings today, and yes, I remembered the spacers, too. Did it with ID 1/4" .068" wire rings. Still needa calculate their AR. Seems a little floppy to me, but if something ran through the center, the shape is there, which leads me to think that this.weave could be pushed indefinitely up in its base size so long as there were.something to act as a suitable filler, so to speak. Methinks also theres probably a way of starting these rounds as a sheet weave, and folding it on itself, but these are conjectures for now.

MMy earlier turkish round and attempt were done with 3/16". AR 3.15 before springback. These held tight. Especially tight in the celtic roundmaille, so that I couldnt even make spacers fit. Im wondering though if maybe 3/16" will make a tight 10 ring base round? I think if I have issues with density, Ill try a mix of 3/16"&1/4".


-The Mighty Ramtide

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4372
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:09 pm
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what makes byz partially euro is the fact that it has overlapping rings that form an eye, with another ring passing through that eye, without rings going around the eye.

(hp3 has rings passing through an eye, but the around the eye connection makes it persian.)

the other family represented in byz is japanese, in the spacer rings.

the sheet you are looking for is a gridlock variant.

it's easier to make the chain than it is to sew up the sheet.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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